Ableton Forum

subterFUSE wrote:
I don't think Bush has been a horrible president, as you do. I don't agree with everything he has done, but on balance I think he has been pretty good. I am glad I voted for him, and if I had to do it all over again, I would still vote for him.

Thats quite interesting. Hes so vilified over here in Europe, and its made out majority of americans think the same. To be honest i dont think i have heard any good/positive thing he has done on the news here for a good few years!

jeskola wrote:

subterFUSE wrote:
I don't think Bush has been a horrible president, as you do. I don't agree with everything he has done, but on balance I think he has been pretty good. I am glad I voted for him, and if I had to do it all over again, I would still vote for him.

Thats quite interesting. Hes so vilified over here in Europe, and its made out majority of americans think the same. To be honest i dont think i have heard any good/positive thing he has done on the news here for a good few years!

I heard someone say something about Bush that I think is very true.


"If you think everything Bush has done is good.... you are an extremist. If you think everything Bush has done is bad.... you are an extremist."

Don't vote...... it only encourages them.

subterFUSE wrote:But the situation is such that we really only have 2 parties, and if you don't vote for one or the other.... you might as well not be voting. And so I usually vote Republican.

The situation is "such that we only have two parties" but only because people like you and I make it that way when we think "we may has well not be voting" if we don't vote for the big two.

I've always voted Democrat. Last presidential election I voted for Kerry but truth is I wasn't crazy about that guy at all. But, for a person like me, anyone would have been better than Bush. You say you don't think Bush is so bad, I think he is without question the worst President in the history of the United States. Bar none. I'd clap happily if this entire administration were hand cuffed and thrown into prison.

But we don't have to get into that. I just wrote that to show you where I stand. And I, for one, will no longer vote for someone as a way to vote against somebody else. I'm not doing it anymore man. The Democrats lost me when they sat around like a bunch of sheep while the Israelis made toast out of Lebanon.

I want someone to vote for, not against. From now on I am voting my conscience and if more people like you and me do that than who knows what could happen. I don't know man, I am just sick of voting for Democrats because I don't like Republicans - there are some Democrats I respect, but like I said the party lost me over Lebanon.

deva wrote: no, you are naive because you ignore obvious realities in order to adhere to your fanciful ideology.

If there are no jobs, then it does not matter how you market yourself.

Interesting choice of words "obvious realities"...

...based on all the evidence you regurgitate, anyone as smart as you would be foolish to pursue an education in "fields" obviously that are dry and "without a future"


Any real American knows that "when there are no jobs" there is always the option to "shift gears" or change jobs.

- r

It's a sad state of affairs when we have to vote for who is the least evil...

Regarding jobs, I'm with rtopia. In a dead-end job? Quit whining and get a new one. Don't have the qualifications for a new job? Get off your ass and get them. It's not always about money. It's about drive, determination and motivation. Where there's a will, there's a way.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the lucrative and growing career fields are. I have no sympathy for those university graduates flippin' burgers, and with big loans to pay off and useless degrees (how many sociologists does the planet need?) who didn't have the basic common sense and foresight to look ahead to what's needed in the job market.

deva wrote: do try to look past your own biased lens. I said nothing about creating some government program.

fair enough...

I only took your remarks to their logical extension.
If your solution isn't governmental intervention - are you suggesting the "armed force" that you mentioned in a follow up post?

deva wrote: you are so afraid of government corruption, but you turn a blind eye towards corporate corruption.

1. I'm not afraid of anything
2. Depending on your definitition of "corporate corruption" (which can range anywhere from "being too good" to "so in bed with the government to have an unfair advantage in the marketplace")...

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THEIR STUFF

deva wrote: If corporations have the means to control governments, then you should be at least as concerned about the corporation. A government is an unaccountable institution that has the means to dominate peoples lives. The nultinational corporation is an unaccountable institution that has the means to dominate peoples lives.

If you limit the role of the government - there's nothing of vlue for a corporation to control - leaving them to compete/evolve/die in the marketplace at the mercy of our spending power.

- r

hambone1 wrote:It's a sad state of affairs when we have to vote for who is the least evil...

Regarding jobs, I'm with rtopia. In a dead-end job? Quit whining and get a new one. Don't have the qualifications for a new job? Get off your ass and get them. It's not always about money. It's about drive, determination and motivation. Where there's a will, there's a way.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the lucrative and growing career fields are. I have no sympathy for those university graduates flippin' burgers, and with big loans to pay off and useless degrees (how many sociologists does the planet need?) who didn't have the basic common sense and foresight to look ahead to what's needed in the job market.

I'm with you on that man.

My parents both went to school for music, because that's what they loved. But in order to make a living, my mom had to work 2 jobs to put my dad through law school.... because they couldn't raise a family as musicians. They both started off dirt poor, and have changed their lives dramatically. That sort of success is not possible in most countries.

Hard work is not enough to get ahead. You've got to make good choices AND work hard. And chance plays a role, too. You can't always just do what you want. My dad wanted to be a musician, but he decided that having enough wealth to raise his family under better conditions than he had growing up was more important to him. So he changed his career. And when he looks back, he doesn't regret it.


As for the least evil.....

What do people expect? Politics has become such a dirty business, that I can't believe we get people to run at all. It's ridiculous. Look at the crap you have to put up with. Would you subject yourself to that? You have to give up your life, forever. Once you are president, you'll never be able to go anywhere without bodyguards.... for the rest of your life. People will dig down into your personal life for the tiniest little amount of dirt they can find. People try to destroy your character. People will want to kill you and your family. It doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat.

I would NEVER put myself in that sort of position.

subterFUSE wrote: That sort of success is not possible in most countries.

Yet it's Americans who bitch and moan more than anyone about how shitty they've got it...

hambone1 wrote:

subterFUSE wrote: That sort of success is not possible in most countries.

Yet it's Americans who bitch and moan more than anyone about how shitty they've got it...

Not me.

hambone1 wrote:

subterFUSE wrote: That sort of success is not possible in most countries.

Yet it's Americans who bitch and moan more than anyone about how shitty they've got it...

hambone gets it : )

"only in America"

- r

rtopia wrote:

deva wrote: you are so afraid of government corruption, but you turn a blind eye towards corporate corruption.

1. I'm not afraid of anything
2. Depending on your definitition of "corporate corruption" (which can range anywhere from "being too good" to "so in bed with the government to have an unfair advantage in the marketplace")...

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THEIR STUFF

5 media conglomerates own 90% of the media in the US. At this point, they can control what the majority of people see and know.

When 5 agribusinesses own 90% of the food supply, others the water, the means of communication and peoples employment, then the vast majority of people live at their whim.

Vast power in the hands of a few leads to corruption and loss of freedom.

and at this point, it is not the corporation in bed with the government, it is the government which is in bed with the corporation.

I describe economic slavery, and it is true it is not fully manifest yet, but this is where we are heading. Once people get used to giving up their liberty, it is much harder to regain it.

Let's recall the words of Justice William O. Douglas: "As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."

btw, the US trade deficit for this past quarter (april to june) was $218.4 Billion

rtopia wrote:

deva wrote: do try to look past your own biased lens. I said nothing about creating some government program.

fair enough...

I only took your remarks to their logical extension.
If your solution isn't governmental intervention - are you suggesting the "armed force" that you mentioned in a follow up post?

The government is so corrupt at this point, people should not depend upon it to tie its shoes

I don't see armed force as a solution, but it may come to that. The price of liberty is vigilence and we do not have much of that as a people.

You may not like the choices that people in Venezuela are making, but when the US backed coup attempt happened in 2002, there were quickly a million Venezuelans who surrounded the Presidential Palace. 1/4 to 1/2 half of them with guns and they demanded the person they elected be returned. This is in a nation of 25 million people. That is a significant percentage of the population that lived within the range to just go there.

Unfortunately I do not see this sort of engaged citizenship active in the people of the US. We are sleepwalking into oppression. At some point enough people will wake up. At that point it may be too late to use legal social channels to rebalance things as those channels are swiftly being removed and rights recinded.

knotkranky wrote:.


Lets not let bush do anymore damage. We have to give congressional control to the democrats. Register, tell your friends to vote. Please, We implore you.

This is our biggest and best chance to help ourselves and the rest of the world. Let's not blow it.

Euro, asia, canada, south america, dudes n chicks, please help by pressing your american friends to vote this november and show us your vote if you could vote.

why vote democrat and/or republican? both are big business money hungry parties, and neither are worth my vote!

i say, vote for neither and give a third party a chance, if that person stands correct on his/her views.

what does religion have to do with anything?