Is "Call to Prayer" sample offensive?

[robbmasters]

I've read it. She herself calls out for a reformation of Islam, just as I do. Any system of values formed in a warlike, tribalistic society has no place in a civilized world where people don't kill each other for having different views.

Where the systems of values was formed is irrelevant. All that matters are those actual values. The values of extremists are very different to those of your typical muslim. The values of the typical muslim are trying to be a good person, worshipping God, repentance, avoidance of intoxicants, family life, etc.

Perhaps then Islam needs to abandon the Hadiths completely? Even that wouldn't do much to help, as I seem to recall that there's some pretty violent, religiously intolerant stuff in the Quran as well however.

Well, some have abandoned Hadith. And I think that's better than following Hadith blindly. But I think Hadith can have a value in illustrating how the Qur'an's laws were originally implemented; Hadith just shouldn't be used to create new laws.

As far as the Jizya (dhimmi tax) goes, it is not comparable to zakat.

I'm not sure why you say that. I can only assume this is based on your mother's experience. If so, then I expect your judgement on the man-made implementation may be fair, but not applicable to the true Islamic principle.

[M. Bréqs]

As far as the Jizya (dhimmi tax) goes, it is not comparable to zakat.

I'm not sure why you say that. I can only assume this is based on your mother's experience. If so, then I expect your judgement on the man-made implementation may be fair, but not applicable to the true Islamic principle.

I should be clear; My mother was never subject to the Jizya - I was speaking rhetorically about my mom in an earlier paragraph of my earilier post. Sorry 'bout that.

But your comparison of Zakat to Jizya is not valid nonetheless. Zakat is given freely (perhaps with social stigma if you don't) to a recipient of the giver's choice. Jizya is a "protection fee" leveled on the underclass by the muslim authority. It is does not fit the definition of charity (given freely to the recipient of the giver's choice) and it does not meet the requirements of fair taxation with representation.

If you can't pay the Zakat, you become a recipient of charity. If you can't pay the Jizya, you get punished.

[robbmasters]

But your comparison of Zakat to Jizya is not valid nonetheless. Zakat is given freely (perhaps with social stigma if you don't) to a recipient of the giver's choice. Jizya is a "protection fee" leveled on the underclass by the muslim authority. It is does not fit the definition of charity (given freely to the recipient of the giver's choice) and it does not meet the requirements of fair taxation with representation.

If you can't pay the Zakat, you become a recipient of charity. If you can't pay the Jizya, you get punished.

I didn't mean to suggest that Jizya was charitable, just that Muslims are obliged to pay the Zakat whereas protected Dhimmi within a Muslim society have no such obligation, so getting them to pay an additional tax instead does not seem unreasonable in principle.

Nevertheless, the man made implementation no doubt falls short of the Muslim ideal.

[pilcrow]

Is it OK not to care about any of this?


-wringing my hands here.. someone please let me know ASAP.

[noisetonepause]

the man made implementation no doubt falls short of the ... ideal.

Quoted for truth.