Ableton Forum

Tone Deft wrote:of course he knows how to produce but he talks about it like a twat which only makes it worse when people in his position say crap like this. clearly he needs to grow up (fuck, that coming from me?)

dunno, when people start talking about how they identify with jazz I usually leave the room. often jazz is pretentious music for pretentious people.

Agreed, mostly. However, I've met plenty of real jazz musicians, and most are definitely NOT pretentious.

My problem is with the windbag electronic producers like this dude that hope to gain some sort of perceived musical pedigree or validation from mentioning how they identify with jazz

I think Villalobos missed the point that it's a great thing that anyone can start making music with a really tight budget. Adds a good bit of compitition to the music game, maybe over saturating it a bit, but forcing people to become a bit more creative, hopefully.

I think he came across quite arrogant in the interview. I haven't produced enough to tell if the audio engine in live is sub quality of logic, cubase etc... but people enjoy 'music' more than just a clinically produced song that restrain what elements they have in them to fit with the perfection of the song. I am not saying I completely ignore getting things sounding good, but I don't think that the engine of live destroys the sound enough to really make a difference.

I don't care what this guy says, I'm sticking with live simply because I love the ability to insert, mix and match audio samples, plugins etc... in realtime making the whole thing all fun and goodness. No one I have played a song to has said "erm, those audio waves sound tainted with ableton". Nup, they either say they like it or hate it, but never based on sound colouration or anything. That's just anarak talk.

guy is bit scarry of youngsters who make thousands time better music than this oldfashionedsuperstarwannabecokeheadsocalledDJ.

Every time I see this topic I think it is about THE Villa-Lobos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heitor_Villa-Lobos

Hardly.

leisuremuffin wrote: meaningless comparison, time and speed of evolution are intentional choices that are in fact important.

You did just disagree with yourself, LM. It cannot be important if the comparison was meaningless, which it was not.

It's as valid for one to enjoy Villalobos' music, as it is for others to criticise it. But seeing as you exist entirely to troll another person's opinion, I put out a request to all mods to bury this thread.

Unless people can grow up and at least run with Klauser's post: RV was suggesting that minimal techno is to electronic music, what punk was to rock? Anyone can pick up a copy of Fruity Loops, Ableton, etc and bash out some minimal with a little effort. Talk about this, at least.

i don't see how i'm trolling anyone's opinion. you said someone can do in 3-4 minutes what he does in 20. i said, "that's bullshit, the amount of time and speed of evolution is part of the composition."


.lm.

I read a post by Dennis Ferrer the other day where he suggests Ableton Live for beginners. He uses Nuendo for his own productions though b/c he doesn't think Live sounds that good..

He's used Nuendo/Cubase for ages and obviously doesn't know how to use Live to it's full functionality to make a statement like that.

To be fair, he admits he hasn't done any kind of formal testing and that it's his subjective opinion - he probably prefers Nuendo for it's plugins and mixer views and comfortability factor as he admits to having used Cubase since version 3 back in the mid-late 90s. I get that, as I have been using Cubase since Atari ST but think Live sounds perfectly fine if used correctly.

Ferrer in RA :
Q : Are you using Ableton for anything right now?

A :Yes and no. You don't use Ableton, you play Ableton. I don't mean that in a bad way, but Ableton is an all-in-one kind of synthesizer in my mind. That's why I say you play Ableton. It's almost a self-contained synth. It's an amazing piece of software. Though, I still prefer Nuendo as Nuendo still has more of the classic kinda feel to it: a mixing-board and that's where I come from. So my tendency is most of the time to rewire Ableton to Nuendo. I still think Nuendo sounds better. That's just my personal view. I can't judge it whether it does sound better or not—it's just to my ears. And to tell you the truth, software's sound is totally subjective.

Not that I would care as I'm not a fan of his anyway. His response has more credibility than Villalobos IMHO.

William wrote:I read a post by Dennis Ferrer the other day where he suggests Ableton Live for beginners. He uses Nuendo for his own productions though b/c he doesn't think Live sounds that good..

jeez this has been discussed to death...

i think any null tests are totally pointless, because in any production / making music is processing of sorts going on, so plugs, and other functions such as warping, or different pan laws, etc. will affect the sound (all has been already discussed to death, really) and therefor people will say that they prefer this or that, and well it is different, i say the same it is very different if i mix in live or logic, if the one is 'better' then the other is questionable, but the result will have different sonic qualities for sure.

the one you prefer you need to figure... who gives a damn what XYZ says about it, use what is comfortable for you.

some will argue ableton has the best sound... well if it has for them, fine... just make music, that is what counts. no one gives a shit what a good piece of music has been made with in the end. there are tons of amazing tracks that have been made in reason or fruity loops, who cares?

besides skills are anyway more important to make something good sounding, i said it already a few times, i knew some rich kids in brighton having refurbished neve desks at their home studios (a dream) and they could record, mix and produce for shit, most 14 year old kid can achieve more with reason having a decent skill set, your tools are nothing worth at all, if you don't know how to use them.

this discussion is lame.

B-S wrote:guy is bit scarry of youngsters who make thousands time better music than this oldfashionedsuperstarwannabecokeheadsocalledDJ.

who are the wannabes here?

i am only scared by the ever growing amount of total shit techno producers out there ..

its not techno of any kind when you copy an allready exsisting track or use preset sounds and beats.
thats far too easy... and sounds by far too boring..

3phase wrote:who are the wannabes here?

i am only scared by the ever growing amount of total shit techno producers out there ..

its not techno of any kind when you copy an allready exsisting track or use preset sounds and beats.
thats far too easy... and sounds by far too boring..

i am not defending anyone's lame approach to production. what i was trying to say, i am too tired of pop superstar kind of behavior in electronic music, which is exactly what these people are doing. ritchie hawtin, villalobos and whole Minus crew. Music sounds pretty newbish if you ask me, but while reading such articles (i ddint read it ), or watching some video, it is really funny, how these people are caught in their own ego.

leisuremuffin wrote:i don't see how i'm trolling anyone's opinion. you said someone can do in 3-4 minutes what he does in 20. i said, "that's ..., the amount of time and speed of evolution is part of the composition."

Well, you're trolling my opinion. And I don't know why I bother responding, if only to perhaps get it through your ignorance that a minimal techno track - or any music for that matter - can be 3 minutes OR 20 minutes, but for some of us the former is preferable to the latter. If you prefer to listen to an entire album of HUT-SSS-HUT-SSS-THROB-OVERSIDECHAINEDNOISERUSH-BOOM-HUT-SSS, that's fine.

Hi casiblake,
this might be useful to you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm

best,
dum

casiblake wrote:

leisuremuffin wrote:i don't see how i'm trolling anyone's opinion. you said someone can do in 3-4 minutes what he does in 20. i said, "that's BULLSHIT, the amount of time and speed of evolution is part of the composition."

Well, you're trolling my opinion. And I don't know why I bother responding, if only to perhaps get it through your ignorance that a minimal techno track - or any music for that matter - can be 3 minutes OR 20 minutes, but for some of us the former is preferable to the latter. If you prefer to listen to an entire album of HUT-SSS-HUT-SSS-THROB-OVERSIDECHAINEDNOISERUSH-BOOM-HUT-SSS, that's fine.

well, lets just say i find your opinion to be rather uninformed. there is a point to writing long compositions, you just might not have the attention span to figure out what that point is. That's fine, you're entitled to like or dislike whatever you want, but it doesn't mean that you are entitled to claim that someone can achieve the effect of a 20 minute long composition in 3-4 minutes when in fact, it's impossible. for the record, i'm not even a big villalobos fan, just offended by your ignorant statement.


.lm.

William wrote:I read a post by Dennis Ferrer the other day where he suggests Ableton Live for beginners. He uses Nuendo for his own productions though b/c he doesn't think Live sounds that good..

I've never said that. I've actually said I love live. LOL ...only issue i have is with "my" perceived evaluation and my peers supposedly mysterious malady because "we don't know what we're talking about because the two audio files null" when it comes to live's sound engine. Oh and Eucon plus sysex support. Otherwise it's a brilliant DAW.

leedsquietman wrote:He's used Nuendo/Cubase for ages and obviously doesn't know how to use Live to it's full functionality to make a statement like that.

I wouldn't be so bold to go out on a limb and make a statement like that. I actually do have a grasp at it's full functionality. Live has it's limitations in functionality and so does Nuendo/Cubase. Each one has it's own workarounds, pros and cons. The way i see it is that it's basically come down to what i feel allows me to get from point a to b in a manner i find substantially more efficient than the other as time is money in our business. Add this to my previously discussed issues and it's a choice i've made for myself. Each of us works in a different manner and claiming i don't know a program's full functionality is shooting off at the lip. Though in reality how many of us really do? Considering the hundreds of features each individual DAW has. Show me someone who knows every gatdamn feature (who didn't invent the damn thing in the first place) and i'll show you a guy/girl who spends more time programming than making music. That's a very rare breed right there if you ask me. LMFAO!

Dennis