Ableton Forum

dave just ignore SubFunk's last post. The internet is down at his house. He called and said that he meant to say:

SubFunk wrote:yousimplydon'tknowwhatonehears(perceives)ornotandyoucan'tmeasureit,wellyouthinkyoucan...thenpleasegoahead...andwedidnotjusttalkedabouthearing,butaboutperceiving,shalliquoteyouagain?sotellminPPU'swhattheperceiveddifferenceisbetweenwhatyouhearandi(you can choose the sound),orhowdoiperceiveyouvshowtonedeftperceivesyouorwhatever...myguessisiwillhaveabout6-7PPU'scanthat be right?we run in circles,goonmeasure...

yes, that sound is the quote button laughing.

H20nly wrote:dave just ignore SubFunk's last post. The internet is down at his house. He called and said that he meant to say:

SubFunk wrote:yousimplydon'tknowwhatonehears(perceives)ornotandyoucan'tmeasureit,wellyouthinkyoucan...thenpleasegoahead...andwedidnotjusttalkedabouthearing,butaboutperceiving,shalliquoteyouagain?sotellminPPU'swhattheperceiveddifferenceisbetweenwhatyouhearandi(you can choose the sound),orhowdoiperceiveyouvshowtonedeftperceivesyouorwhatever...myguessisiwillhaveabout6-7PPU'scanthat be right?we run in circles,goonmeasure...

yes, that sound is the quote button laughing.

is this where we mention ouroboros?

SubFunk wrote: you simply don't know what one hears (perceives) or not and you can't measure it, well you think you can... then please go ahead...
and we did not just talked about hearing, but about perceiving, shall i quote you again?

you just interpret 'percieving' on only the interpretation of some input signal. so lets focus on HEARING.

so tell me in PPU's what the perceived difference is between what you hear and i (you can choose the sound), or how do i perceive you vs how tonedeft perceives you or whatever... my guess is i will have about 6-7 PPU's can that be right?

as i said, that's not what i'm talking about. and you know that exactly.

we run in circles, go on measure...

just please measure, you say it's possible... so stop arguing and DO IT or get someone doing it for you, in case you don't have the PPU unit measuring machine at hand.

possible doesn't mean easy, or doable "just like it" right now.

and you know i'm not talking about that, you know exactly what i'm talking about that.

so let me show you what i was talking about:

if i give you two audio signals and you say to one "that is warmer". just in a room, just two speakers in, no other devices. how do you judge one to be warmer? by hearing (HEARING) some difference, and interpreting (as you'd say perceiving) it as warmer.

and my point was, that difference that makes you say "that is warmer", that difference is measurable. you HEARD AND INTERPRETED that difference. heard with the ear, interpreted with the brain. which means one thing: YOU MEASURED IT. your ear is a measure device, and the brain interprets the result as WARMER.

and that's what i said. if you can hear a difference, or feel one (sub woofers f.e. are mainly felt, not heard), then that difference can be measured.

this might be interesting viewing in context of the 'discussion'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

davepermen wrote:and that's what i said. if you can hear a difference, or feel one (sub woofers f.e. are mainly felt, not heard), then that difference can be measured.

and NOT THAT YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE DIFFERENCE IS DEFINITELY ABLE TO BE MEASURED although that might be possible with some kind of neuroimaging techniques or other kind of *gasp* scientific measurement techniques.

how you actually assign a label (warm, round etc..) to that perception is another thing entirely.

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I saw this and thought "A twelve page thread about analog sounding warmer? Again? Someone's gotta be insulting someone by now..."

First line I read: "you are really retarded, sorry"

hahaha, good old interwebs.

classic interwebs.

way to go tw1nstates... classic.




Macs sound like shit.

back on topic, i perceive that cheap analog gear sonically sucks, serious high end can be a an aural bliss, best of both worlds is where i like it most, personally.

please measure or argue otherwise

and real serious, i like that analogue gear can have a 'character' and loads of colour, digital is always clean or an emulation of an analogue character, but never really can have a character on it's own (well if we cut out the ultra cleanness that digital naturally has as being a character)

if that is today, seeing the way and systems people listen to music on, of any noticeable difference is discussable... well, different perceived, please measure again.

and on the very practical side... i do a recording right now for a film... my mixer / preamps are analogue... and i don't need to use the ugly limiter (we have a lot of real tough dynamics) and i can easy run into the red without a serious harm (only a bit of sonic difference that occurs, nothing major)
... the recording however is digital and there i need to really watch the levels very careful other wise i can throw away my clipped recordings... and the work was for nothing, or i need to use ugly limiters or compressors to avoid that.

but that has nothing to do with the sound itself, it is just a very practical convenience of analogue vs digital.

back off topic.

the new Pro Tools summing bus makes Live sound like a tin can.

mdk wrote:

davepermen wrote:and that's what i said. if you can hear a difference, or feel one (sub woofers f.e. are mainly felt, not heard), then that difference can be measured.

and NOT THAT YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE DIFFERENCE IS DEFINITELY ABLE TO BE MEASURED although that might be possible with some kind of neuroimaging techniques or other kind of *gasp* scientific measurement techniques.

how you actually assign a label (warm, round etc..) to that perception is another thing entirely.

well, it's measured in perman perception units, PPU's

mdk wrote:this might be interesting viewing in context of the 'discussion'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

ah cool..now i understand why theese digital freaks dont hear a difference ..they are preoccupied..

mdk wrote:this might be interesting viewing in context of the 'discussion'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

yes indeed, i only now watched the beginning of it, but yes i agree to the first point mentioned there... that is why i always say you can learn how to listen, you can teach your brain / ears... especially the topic mixing and not using solo and be able to hear and isolate via your ears any sound in order to tweak them in a full mix...

gonna need to watch the full video though... who knows what still comes, but the first topic, yep. absolutely...

so please measure my or anyone else's perception...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

@ 19:50, totally my words and prayer.

SubFunk & Dave maybe one day…



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_(philosophy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology_(philosophy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology_(science)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjGRySVyTDk

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http://www.digido.com/articles-demos.html

well, she is a girl isn't she? i am into girls not guys, so why not...

that is if she is not fat and ugly...