Musicians no longer socially relevant?

[Galt]

the main proof U.S. are not a democracy: (1) they have death penalty; (2) they are literally SCARED of socialism. For instance they call "a socialist" (?!) Obama, which here in Europe would be called "a conservative". So, people can only "choose" between the democrats (racist) and the republicans (war).

Wait, I thought the Republican-supporting Fox News was racist, but now you're telling me they're war?

You're wrong, this is difficult.

[Galt]

It is not that difficult:

(1) U.S. are not a democracy, but a military dictatorship.

Myra, you don't help the cause by coming out with statements like this. This is what's known in revolutionary circles as 'bullshit'.

Well technically, it's not a democracy, but a republic.

So you're both wrong.

[myrnova]

It is not that difficult:

(1) U.S. are not a democracy, but a military dictatorship.

Myra, you don't help the cause by coming out with statements like this. This is what's known in revolutionary circles as 'bullshit'.

The fact it is not a "classic" military dictatorship (as in south america, with curfew, the dictator on the balcony etc.) does not mean it isn't. It is. Disguised in "liberal democracy". How do you call a nation which main aim is war? "a war capitalistic democracy"?

I make you an example: here in Italy berlusconi and the neofascists called their party "we, people devoted to freedom". Of course they aren't partisans (those were called "the free people"). It is just subtle propaganda, in order to produce confusion with words and symbols. See the "democrats" in america, called "the liberals" (one of the most racist party ever), and the republicans called "conservatives". People get confused, meanwhile they can keep on with war (the real aim).



This word (libertà) in italy means "antifascism". And guess? Nowadays the neofascists and the mafia use it...

[andydes]

Neo-liberals stole our word.



Anyway, the knife has a track on their latest album called "fracking fluid injection". No lyrics, mainly a bunch of strange noises (myrnova wouldn't like it).

Can a band make a statement on an issue with just a title and the mood of a track? Can't be completely sure if they are pro or anti, but I think anti.

[myrnova]

Another example regarding subtle propaganda through words used by berlusconi and the neofascists is the term "forza italia", the earlier name of their (neofascist) party.

"Forza Italia" was used when national soccer team played, it means "we are the champions". Children, young, old, men, women, priests, communists, everyone used it when our national team played. Nowadays the main slogan in stadium is "berlusconi pezzo di merda" ("berlusconi piece of shit") together with "bella ciao" (antifascist song).

In a few years this "forza italia" slogan, which remembered the italians "world champions" (soccer is a sort of national passion here), became "up with berlusconi". "Brainwashing Propaganda". Berlusconi and the italian mafia, together with neofascists, know well how to use it... Berlusconi is U.S. friend nr.1 and owns 70% of mass media in italy.



In the U.S. this kind of "tricks" are used at the nth degree. And they work: see the results (american users here)

[myrnova]

The fact it is not a "classic" military dictatorship (as in south america, with curfew etc.) does not mean it isn't.
Well, it's not like Pinochet's Chile etc is it? America backed those military dictatorships, but it was never one itself.

It is. Disguised in "liberal democracy". How do you call a nation which main aim is war? "a war capitalistic democracy"?

America is a capitalist democracy, aka a bourgeois democracy. It's main aim isn't anything. A nation is not something that has aims as far as I know. The ruling class (capitalists) has a main aim which is to make money (profit), or rather take money off other people. War is just a continuation of foreign policy for the capitalist class. War is usually about securing resources, but it can occur for other reasons. The military do not rule America, not even indirectly. The capitalists who supply the military have more power actually. The finance industry certainly does. The military tops work on behalf of the capitalist class. You don't have elections in a military dictatorship and you have vastly more draconian laws than America has now.

In Chile in 1973, General Pinochet organised the bombing of the elected Allende government. There was a military coup and afterwards thousands of people on the left politically were arrested, tortured and murdered, or fled into exile. That is a military dictatorship. America (the American ruling class that is) of course was behind the coup, as were big companies like ITT. American capitalists wanted Chile's fruit and copper and so the CIA made sure they got it rather than the Chileans.

I disagree. America is a capitalist fake democracy in which the masters are:
(1) what cospirationists call "the invisible empire" (the white racist conservative capitalist families)
(2) the military nationalistic lobby

They both have a single aim, which is imperialism ("american supremacy"). That is why they make war.

Otherwise, you have to explain to me:

(1) why the U.S. have always supported fascist and military dictatorships, NEVER democracies (unless you call "democracies" those U.S. colonies in which a puppet U.S. government rules, with "neoliberal" policies and such criminal shit?).

(2) why in the U.S. death penalty is still legal? A democracy implies "death penalty"?!!

(3) this:


(4) the fact the roman empire was called "res publica" (republic) does not mean it was a "peaceful democracy". It was a military dictatorship. I don't understand why should I call the U.S. in a different way.

(5) what the fuck of a democracy is the one that disrespects international laws regarding human rights, never accepts U.N. rules, commits torture, and imposes its war policy?! I call it a military dictatorship (that's what it is, even if disguised in "we are a democracy, our president is black and people can say whatever they want"). Regarding opposers, they get killed. Silently, maybe.

The main proof, by the way, is that the U.S. are SCARED of socialism. In a democracy this wouldn't happen. In a dictatorship it ALWAS happens. People in america are scared by socialism because their masters brainwash them with nationalist war propaganda, since they are 3-4 y.o. kids. When adults they become good conformist citizens. You can call it "neoliberal democracy", "capitalistic democracy" etc. I call it a military dictatorship (unless you explain to me the reason of 20 millions deaths in 25 years of U.S. wars worldwide: because the poor victims ate burgers and cocacola? )

[myrnova]

P.S. I understand when you claim "it is not a dictatorship"... because you think of this kind of people:



In my opinion, on the contrary, fascism did not disappear, it just has new forms... "politically correct" disguised.This happend after WW2. Example:



Now, you can call Bush and such puppets "democratic people elected by people and ruling a capitalist democracy", if you like. For me they are just useful idiots for the lords of war. Bad actors, sometimes not even useful, just idiots The fact people can elect them every four-five years is irrelevant. It remains a regime: for the record, real opposers in america get killed or imprisoned. Sometimes banned and called "terrorists".

People in America believe those guys are not "dictators" because they don't dress like mussolini, hitler, clown soldiers etc. and don't scream like nuts when talking of their war shit? They believe mussolini and hitler were "dictators" because they decided everything? Don't they know WHO were behind them?! What's the difference between a criminal puppet in uniform and a criminal puppet in smoking?!

[andydes]

I used to be more up for talking about everything that's wrong with america, but given the vile filth and criminal incompetence coming out of our own politicians mouths, I honestly don't have much anger left for other countries.

[myrnova]

What's the difference between a criminal puppet in uniform and a criminal puppet in smoking?!

The difference is that you and I have not been shot yet. You can't just throw words like fascism around either. Fascism is a very specific phenomenon involving mass support for extreme reaction and a large quasi or actual paramilitary, or a movement with paramilitary potential.

If America is a military dictatorship now, what would it be if elections were cancelled and people like you were locked up without trial by the military? If it is fascist now, what would it be if a neo-Nazi party was in power? And don't tell me the Republicans and Democrats are neo-Nazi!

If you and I have not be shot yet is just because we aren't dangerous at all. Unless you think those famous "antiamerican opinionists" like chomsky, gore vidal etc. are "dangerous" for the system? The real opposers are of course shot in america, the less they risk is life imprisonment. I mean people like Assange, Snowden, Huey Newton, Malcolm x, Abu Jamal, Assata Shakur, etc. These are called "terrorists" and are usually shot by U.S. "democracy". You expect me to admit "america is not a dictatorship, because in New York there are no tanks on the road and people can vote"?!

What you call "Fascism" (the historical italian phenomenon built by the italian capitalists in order to avoid socialism) is the same happening in U.S. nowadays. You could claim: "hey, but fascists were racist"... well, just think about the conditions of african americans in the 30s... Sorry, but I see no difference between the discrimination of jews and communists in Italy and the discrimination of the africans and socialists in the U.S. Things have changed since the 30s only because of african american struggles, not because U.S. are a democracy.

Regarding the nazis, Hitler's regime was a tyranny, not a dictatorship. I see more similarities between fascism and U.S. than between U.S. and real democracies. Francisco Franco, Salazar, the greek colonels, those fascist dictatorships are the models. U.S. is the same + some shitty "panem et circenses".

[myrnova]

The only differences between a "classic dictatorship" (for what it means) and U.S. are these:

(1) in classic dictatorships the dictator (the puppet) is only one (and ALWAYS supported by the U.S. Guess why...). In U.S. instead there is a puppet "president" every 4 years. It works like this. Shall we call it "a democracy" because they let 40% of white rich people change their puppet once in a while? The proof: nothing changes of course. When I say "nothing" I mean NOTHING. You notice differences between bush and obama?! I don't, sorry. Same old shit (WAR).
(2) U.S. is by far the most horrible and criminal dictatorship in human history ever. Just read history books. A real danger for Planet Earth and an enemy of global peace.

The fact western people generally react like: "what?! U.S. a dictatorship?! Not possible, we are free... all the funny movies, the popstars, the culture... we can laugh and dance..." reminds me the germans reactions after WW2... It is called "massive brainwashing propaganda". The americans learnt it well and spread it through "panem et circenses" (products, sex, drugs, shitty movies, popstars: the illusion of "freedom" given by the state). Of course real opposers are shot in America: they are called "terrorists" and usually burn on an electric chair or end their lives in prison. The same were called the antinazi opposers by the nazi regime. I see no difference at all, apart some shitty movies and a fake "freedom of speech" (when totally harmless for the system: comedians, intellectuals, people like you and me debating on a forum before I get banned for "unamericanism" and such). America seems less "tough" than other dictatorships? It is because of movie industry. The poor in America DIE and the prisons are full of potential revolutionars (in U.S. called "terrorists"). Outside U.S. people are generally scared of U.S. Not because of some shitty war propaganda movie for brainwashed patriots or because they "are scared of real freedom and real democracy". It is because of WAR. This is why the U.S. are so hated outside America: the BOMBS.



Of course americans here are not even aware of what I am talking about. Last time I put a picture of a poor victim of U.S. "war for democracy" and Stringtapper came out claiming "porno gore material is not allowed" and calling me "a sexual maniac" or smth. This is the level of brainwashing propaganda in the U.S. This people (in my opinion 80-90% of the entire U.S. population) call 20 millions deaths "porno gore material" and their soldiers "heroes". It's the "american paradox"

That is why I think the only ones who can start a social revolution in America are the african american organisations, the only ones aware of what U.S. really are. Most of them of course are in the FBI/CIA "black list" (no pun intended). Guess why...

Conclusion: the U.S. are a "postmodern dictatorship" in which the masters let the people "be free" (only apparently) in change of a general "unawareness". It is as if they said: "let us work and be happy". 80-90% of american people accept this situation. The masters of course let 10-20% of american people "protest" against the president and the inequities... Even against the war! Why? Because:

(1) this 10-20% of people have no power at all and cannot change the status quo.
(2) this gives the other 80-90% people the illusion that they live in a democracy, where every opinion is respected etc. etc. (bullshit: the real opposers are in prison, banishment or just killed by the CIA in the total indifference of the vast majority of the population: "complexity" factor).
(3) sometimes the american "Supreme Court" claims "this is right, this is wrong" but of course laws and rules work only for rich people. For them "democracy" works The poor on the contrary will die and have no justice at all, and no "supreme court" sentence will save them (apart in hollywood "happy end" movies).

It's the new form of fascism: the "dictatorship of unawareness". In Germany (period 1935-40) it worked well, and it was a tyranny. The U.S. fascism is just the "(fake) democratic version". Same "white race supremacy" ideology, same criminal strategies, same imagery in propaganda (see the "superheroes", the soldiers called "heroes", the flag religion, etc.)


(the REAL 9/11)

[regretfullySaid]

Funken, you're right, I've been a colossal dickwad for some time now and have no business tearing anyone else down, so my apologies.

[lowshelf]

Anyway, the knife has a track on their latest album called "fracking fluid injection". No lyrics, mainly a bunch of strange noises (myrnova wouldn't like it).

That's nice / nicely curious, it's like there's a proper track going on alongside that you can't hear, but which should be there, or they pulled the faders down on the regular instruments.

Can a band make a statement on an issue with just a title and the mood of a track? Can't be completely sure if they are pro or anti, but I think anti.

Yeah I reckon, Alec Empire's old Civilization Virus comes to mind. Compared to some of his other stuff, maybe the lyric-free abstractness makes it more powerful or digestible or identifiable.

[myrnova]

techno, trance, dubstep, hardcore etc. are by definition anarchist arts, there is no need of lyrics. All these artists are antinazi, antifascists, and "anarchist". It's like punk. I doubt fascists and KKK want to dance techno and goatrance

[rote fahne]

techno, trance, dubstep, hardcore etc. are by definition anarchist arts, there is no need of lyrics. All these artists are antinazi, antifascists, and "anarchist". It's like punk. I doubt fascists and KKK want to dance techno and goatrance

true, but as an artform they dont have any value.

[Galt]

techno, trance, dubstep, hardcore etc. are by definition anarchist arts, there is no need of lyrics. All these artists are antinazi, antifascists, and "anarchist". It's like punk. I doubt fascists and KKK want to dance techno and goatrance

If you only knew how many nazis I've met at hardcore parties... They like me because I've got a shaved bonce, which gets me free drinks. I suppose this is as close as a man can get to tasting the "girls night out" experience, short of slapping on some rouge, going to a gay bar, calling everyone a "pathetic loser", and then waking up in a strange bed, with stained, silk sheets and the sticky scent of shame.