Ableton Forum

@ The Finn - exactly... and/or Live 10 vs Bitwig 2...

a guy in a mouse head and some screenshots only go so far...

The time and effort isn't the problem for me. The problem for me is that live works to a large degree and I have no gas for a new host. They had their chance. Do you realize that it's been "in beta" for now over two years? That means that the project was a bit too ambitious even for smart guys. Who know, maybe they'll make a mint, but I'd have been interested 2 years ago, but not now.

Doesn't mean I have no interest. If I had no interest, I'd just ignore these threads. But let's be real for a momento...bitwig is it's own form of entertainment separate from the product. These 99% ridiculous threads provide a ton of goo to chew. Other than a couple of videos that show that you can make a beat and a couple of noises in a novel way, bitwig threads do very little to actually cover a product.

It's an urban legend to a certain extent.

I'd like to know more about BitWig's native plugins. An interview, Dom mentions that they have around 50 of them, whereas on BitWig's website, I count only 29.

I like to work as in-the-box as possible, so if the synths have decent filters, the reverb doesn't sound like garbage, and they've added a usable mastering limiter, I'd totally like Samuel L. Jizzle in my pants.

Incidentally, 51% percent of 192 Live users who have voted and who are interested in becoming BitWig users if everything evens out is OBJECTIVELY great.

For me it's like with Reaper - over the years, the shills who've posted on the Ableton forum have done a disservice to the products they're trying to promote.

eyeknow wrote:Other than a couple of videos that show that you can make a beat and a couple of noises in a novel way, bitwig threads do very little to actually cover a product.

It's an urban legend to a certain extent.

I agree. Besides a few features that Live doesn't have, we know absolutely nothing about Bitwig Studio after all of this time in beta. At this point, everything about this program should be common knowledge. It's being released in a few weeks, and we don't even know what kind of audio engine it uses!?!??!???

Definitely going to give it a serious look.
I make my living with Live, so it definitely wouldn't be an overnight migration for myself. As a professional, it'd be kind of silly for me to NOT take a look at what could be the evolution of the paradigm I work in. It would be equally as silly to jump over and sell my live license. My loyalty sits with whatever gets my ideas out quicker with less stress, and that happens to be Bitwig, so be it. The features they HAVE shown really do sound enticing to me. They're improvements/new directions I've been wanting to see implemented in Live for a long time, but time will tell if it holds up under the hood. I haven't really been keen on the direction Ableton has been going personally, aside from a couple things in the 9/9.1 update. Better MIDI and Audio editing features are more important to me than Push. Robust, GUI based modulation systems are more important to me than hacky Max For Live implementations. More efficient and stable use of multi-core resources are more important to me than flaky audio to midi. Accurate playback of automation is more important to me than an externally licensed compressor (as nice as the glue is). Watching carefully, and waiting? Yes. Migrating immediately? No.

kb420 wrote:
I agree. Besides a few features that Live doesn't have, we know absolutely nothing about Bitwig Studio after all of this time in beta. At this point, everything about this program should be common knowledge. It's being released in a few weeks, and we don't even know what kind of audio engine it uses!?!??!???

I don't know what an 'audio engine' is, but FWIW, Tarekith had some interesting comments on BW's audio performance: viewtopic.php?p=1582684#p1582684

His actual blog is here: http://bit.ly/1l10U8K

rtcardinal wrote:Definitely going to give it a serious look.
I make my living with Live, so it definitely wouldn't be an overnight migration for myself. As a professional, it'd be kind of silly for me to NOT take a look at what could be the evolution of the paradigm I work in. It would be equally as silly to jump over and sell my live license. My loyalty sits with whatever gets my ideas out quicker with less stress, and that happens to be Bitwig, so be it. The features they HAVE shown really do sound enticing to me. They're improvements/new directions I've been wanting to see implemented in Live for a long time, but time will tell if it holds up under the hood. I haven't really been keen on the direction Ableton has been going personally, aside from a couple things in the 9/9.1 update. Better MIDI and Audio editing features are more important to me than Push. Robust, GUI based modulation systems are more important to me than hacky Max For Live implementations. More efficient and stable use of multi-core resources are more important to me than flaky audio to midi. Accurate playback of automation is more important to me than an externally licensed compressor (as nice as the glue is). Watching carefully, and waiting? Yes. Migrating immediately? No.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

I've chucked in my 2 cents way back in the thread - I've invested too much time in Live and Push to switch to anything else, and it suits my workflow perfectly.

That said, the clips within a clip and multitrack editing I quite like the sound of. Who knows what the overall BWS workflow will feel like?

I just hope that it's actually a really good DAW, which in turn will create competition with Ableton, which can only be a good thing.

I don't know why people get so worked up over two DAWs though. It's just weird. I understand it - like rooting for your team or somesuch - but why become so defensive?

^ It's like buying furniture... only for your mind.

Think about it.

iphone v. android
mac v. PC
Live v. bitwig
evo v. sti

sometimes you buy one because it works better.
sometimes you buy one because you hate the people that buy the other.

clydesdale wrote:iphone v. android
mac v. PC
Live v. bitwig
evo v. sti
MPC Ren v. Maschine

sometimes you buy one because it works better.
sometimes you buy one because you hate the people that buy the other.

Fixed.

The Finn wrote:I don't know what an 'audio engine' is

I was referring to it's summing engine.

There is nothing scientific about the poll, however... As of this post a little better than 50% of the respondents have a neutral or optimistic view of BWS from the information they have gleaned from where ever. Now there are a ton of factors at play here and I don't think anything negative about Live can be distilled from those percentages, however I do think that it speaks volumes about Bitwig's chances. What I read into that is that if BWS can land and at least be stable on most systems (with fixes coming quickly for any serious bugs), and have good customer support (which is difficult for any startup) they may have a 50/50 chance to make it in a niche field dominated by Live.

That isn't bad odds for a startup.

UncleAge wrote:
That isn't bad odds for a startup.

And it could bean indication of some real dissatisfaction among Live's core users.

The Finn wrote:

UncleAge wrote:That isn't bad odds for a startup.

And it could be an indication of some real dissatisfaction among Live's core users.

It could. I could see some of that as people liking the new coat of paint, or maybe they like getting in at the ground level so they can grow with the app, especially since this may be the time the dev is most open to input. Who knows...