Ableton Forum

adventurepants_ wrote:MBreqs:

you do realise that us in the west created modern militant fundamentalist islam dont you?

we armed and trained them as props in our foreign wars against the Ussr.

You state that youd like to correct 'willful ignorance' but are happy in your own.

Of course I know that; I've got a BA with a major in 20th Century History, and a minor in Asian Studies. My Master's thesis (though I never completed it) was on the development of guerilla warfare as a tactic.

Honestly, the USSR was a greater threat (global nuclear annihilation) than militant islam (wackos who beat their women and kill infidels) was percieved to be at the time. Backing anti-USSR jihadists was a necessary evil.

That said, now's not the time to back away from past mistakes. We the west created the problem (justifiably at the time), now we have to fix it - and you don't do that by ignoring it and pretending that these wackos are just culturally different than us when they kill 3000+ of our fellow members of western society.

[edit: I normally don't participate in thread necromancy, but I was addressed directly in this one.]

Just curious - when talking about "moral fabrics", is there "american moral" and if so, what would that be?

are the people ranting in favor of republicans just taking the piss?

M. Bréqs wrote:
That said, now's not the time to back away from past mistakes. We the west created the problem (justifiably at the time), now we have to fix it - and you don't do that by ignoring it and pretending that these wackos are just culturally different than us when they kill 3000+ of our fellow members of western society.

The problem cannot be fixed by ignoring the killing of 3000 X 200 Iraqi civilians either.

glu wrote:

M. Bréqs wrote:
That said, now's not the time to back away from past mistakes. We the west created the problem (justifiably at the time), now we have to fix it - and you don't do that by ignoring it and pretending that these wackos are just culturally different than us when they kill 3000+ of our fellow members of western society.

The problem cannot be fixed by ignoring the killing of 3000 X 200 Iraqi civilians either.

And would it be to radical to propose that the killing of thousands members of our human society is atrocious?

M. Bréqs wrote:

adventurepants_ wrote:MBreqs:

you do realise that us in the west created modern militant fundamentalist islam dont you?

we armed and trained them as props in our foreign wars against the Ussr.

You state that youd like to correct 'willful ignorance' but are happy in your own.

Of course I know that; I've got a BA with a major in 20th Century History, and a minor in Asian Studies. My Master's thesis (though I never completed it) was on the development of guerilla warfare as a tactic.

Honestly, the USSR was a greater threat (global nuclear annihilation) than militant islam (wackos who beat their women and kill infidels) was percieved to be at the time. Backing anti-USSR jihadists was a necessary evil.

That said, now's not the time to back away from past mistakes. We the west created the problem (justifiably at the time), now we have to fix it - and you don't do that by ignoring it and pretending that these wackos are just culturally different than us when they kill 3000+ of our fellow members of western society.

[edit: I normally don't participate in thread necromancy, but I was addressed directly in this one.]

i couldnt disagree with you more, but i appreciate your thoughtful reply.

sure these wackos are harmful, but the kind of harm they are capable of is of such a smaller scale than the harm we in the west are. i cant help but see the "Islamoterrorist" idea, as just another Orwellian boogeyman. As a student of history, you know that governments and leaders have always overplayed an external threat to allow them to force their agendas through to scared populations. I dont see this as any different.

The US is going to reap an entire generation of hatred from their current adventures, and by association, most of us in the West.

My point is that there was no such thing as an organised militant Islam, until the CIA created it in Afghanistan, and helped to prop up the House of Saud.

M. Bréqs wrote: Of course I know that; I've got a BA with a major in 20th Century History, and a minor in Asian Studies. My Master's thesis (though I never completed it) was on the development of guerilla warfare as a tactic.

Well if you finished your masters thesis you might have learned something...

You are NEVER gonna win against Geurilla soldiers while they are getting invaded and have nothing to lose... because its getting molested by you.

I studied Archaeology and obviously learned more about human society than you did with your little POLITICS and asian studies degree.

Have you heard of the Roman Empire ? The empire part of it is dead.

Wake up this country needs a fuckin shake up.

Revised History is a more proper name for that subject anyhow.

It seems, some have not understood the game.
A tip: it does not really matter, which party is "elected".
"Give me the opportunity to control and create money, and i don't care who is governing the country." (Amsel Rothschild)

gawd! 13 pages BS again...
Could you please grow up peeps?

Do you sub bass?

BinaryB wrote: Well if you finished your masters thesis you might have learned something...

You are NEVER gonna win against Geurilla soldiers while they are getting invaded and have nothing to lose... because its getting molested by you.

I studied Archaeology and obviously learned more about human society than you did with your little POLITICS and asian studies degree.

Have you heard of the Roman Empire ? The empire part of it is dead.

Wake up this country needs a fuckin shake up.

The Brits won in Malaysia and the The Chinese successfully quashed the Tibetan insurgency from 58-74. There's are two modern examples of successful counter-insurgency campaigns. I also seem to recall that Che Guevera didn't do too good in Bolivia either.

The turn of the 20th century saw the Americans victorious in the Phillipines. Same with the Boer War.

Let's see what else there is

Spanish Republicans didn't do too well when they continued their insurgency, and Franco solidified his power.

Oh, and also, the Germans easily held Poland and France throughout WWII, despite guerilla forces operating in each country (though their reason for success in each case was different; the French rolled over like cowards and took it in the ass, while the poles were simply crushed).

So you see Mr. Archeology, there are successful counter-insurgencies.

Successful counter-insurgencies have one common denomenator; You starve the insurgents from thier base of support. One way is to address the root needs of the population, so that they have no need to turn to the insurgents for governance, development or security. That's what we're doing in Afghanistan right now.

The majority of the people here support our presence. Unlike the Soviets, the entire country isn't aligned against us, only a small percentage... And yes, there's data to back up this claim. In fact, it was just released yesterday!

http://erg.environics.net/media_room/de ... sp?aID=653

I'll be starting a new thread to discuss this particular development.

the last one wrote:I'm voting Republican to protect our homeland security AND the moral fabric of our society.

Let me see, kidnapping people from Europe who happen to have arabian names, putting them into some off-shore jail for years with no trial and no attorney at law, using "strong methods" to get information out of people who ain't even proved to be terrorists...

I know this is polemic, but speaking of a "moral fabric of our society" when fundamental pillars of western civilization are torn down by your very own goverment also seems polemic at best, actually it seems rather ignorant.

Whatever, I am not in the position to judge on american society though and am well aware that it's kind of torn in halves at the moment.

M. Bréqs wrote:

BinaryB wrote: Well if you finished your masters thesis you might have learned something...

You are NEVER gonna win against Geurilla soldiers while they are getting invaded and have nothing to lose... because its getting molested by you.

I studied Archaeology and obviously learned more about human society than you did with your little POLITICS and asian studies degree.

Have you heard of the Roman Empire ? The empire part of it is dead.

Wake up this country needs a fuckin shake up.

The Brits won in Malaysia and the The Chinese successfully quashed the Tibetan insurgency from 58-74. There's are two modern examples of successful counter-insurgency campaigns. I also seem to recall that Che Guevera didn't do too good in Bolivia either.

The turn of the 20th century saw the Americans victorious in the Phillipines. Same with the Boer War.

Let's see what else there is

Spanish Republicans didn't do too well when they continued their insurgency, and Franco solidified his power.

Oh, and also, the Germans easily held Poland and France throughout WWII, despite guerilla forces operating in each country (though their reason for success in each case was different; the French rolled over like cowards and took it in the ass, while the poles were simply crushed).

So you see Mr. Archeology, there are successful counter-insurgencies.

Your idea of winning is not success,
its called having to continue fighting and spending resources on subduing the insurgents.
You know you aint never gonna win baby.

Especially the shit fight you are in NOW...

The best you can hope for is to buddy up with the locals and make deals
with someone to get them in power.

M. Bréqs wrote:
Successful counter-insurgencies have one common denomenator; You starve the insurgents from thier base of support. One way is to address the root needs of the population, so that they have no need to turn to the insurgents for governance, development or security. That's what we're doing in Afghanistan right now.

The majority of the people here support our presence. Unlike the Soviets, the entire country isn't aligned against us, only a small percentage... And yes, there's data to back up this claim. In fact, it was just released yesterday!

http://erg.environics.net/media_room/de ... sp?aID=653

I'll be starting a new thread to discuss this particular development.

HA HA HA

You really are a chump.

Dont - Dont, Dont - Dont - Dont Believe The Hype.

Mr.Bleep.

BinaryB wrote: HA HA HA :lol:

You really are a chump.

Dont - Dont, Dont - Dont - Dont Believe The Hype.

Mr.Bleep.

:roll:

No hype there, dhimwit. This only confirms what I see here every fucking day with my own two eyes.

BinaryB wrote:
Your idea of winning is not success,
its called having to continue fighting and spending resources on subduing the insurgents.
You know you aint never gonna win baby.

Especially the shit fight you are in NOW...

The best you can hope for is to buddy up with the locals and make deals
with someone to get them in power.

Especially the shit fight I'm in NOW? You have no idea what I'm NOW. How about you put the paper bag back on your head, some reality might slip in if you don't. Wouldn't want that, noooooo.