Ableton Forum

@student
1. the definition you gave is true to me too.
i'm saying that a lot of racism from non white people comes from being hated for nothing more than what you are. the "you hate me so i hate you" response. i dont think its right, cos i like people.

2. dude in england i get dissed cos i dont speak "black"? in america they find it strange that i speak like a white person?? in jamaica they think i'm rich, and in australia, they wondered why i didnt talk like ali g.... in asia i'm bob marley, and in canada i think the chicks liked me! hell they like me all over but travelling really lets me know i belong everywhere, and nowhere...

america was bad when i was there with a white girlfriend; she got dissed by white people, and i got dissed by black people. we were staying up in the bronx with my half sister, and i gotta say it was friendlier there for us than anywhere else we went (NJ, Boston). the white guys kept on hitting on her until we'd explicitly state we were a couple, that was insulting. and the black girls would evil her on the metro, that was scary! it made me realise how fucking segratgated the US is.

no you're mixing racism with institutioanlized racism, its two diff things man and i know you know that,
if you think we have the capacity to end affirmative action right now, especialy when you're calling affirmative action the same as racism then you should have no problem enforcing the laws on the books already right now also. your not being forthright.

dredd i knight wrote:@student
1. the definition you gave is true to me too.
i'm saying that a lot of racism from non white people comes from being hated for nothing more than what you are. the "you hate me so i hate you" response. i dont think its right, cos i like people.

2. dude in england i get dissed cos i dont speak "black"? in america they find it strange that i speak like a white person?? in jamaica they think i'm rich, and in australia, they wondered why i didnt talk like ali g.... in asia i'm bob marley, and in canada i think the chicks liked me! hell they like me all over but travelling really lets me know i belong everywhere, and nowhere...

america was bad when i was there with a white girlfriend; she got dissed by white people, and i got dissed by black people. we were staying up in the bronx with my half sister, and i gotta say it was friendlier there for us than anywhere else we went (NJ, Boston). the white guys kept on hitting on her until we'd explicitly state we were a couple, that was insulting. and the black girls would evil her on the metro, that was scary! it made me realise how fucking segratgated the US is.

yeah I thought you'd have experienced that shit, my little sister's mother in law is always talkin shit about her saying she's acting like she's white cause she speaks proper english. whenever the family gets together i end up having to leave because of her husbands dumbass family

starving student wrote:no you're mixing racism with institutioanlized racism, its two diff things man and i know you know that,
if you think we have the capacity to end affirmative action right now, especialy when you're calling affirmative action the same as racism then you should have no problem enforcing the laws on the books already right now also. your not being forthright.

what the hell are you talking about? I think you think that I dont want to enforce anti-discrimination laws or something. I never said that. I said that those laws need to be enforced fairly and equally. And I argued against other laws, like hate crime laws, which have no legitimate basis in our legal system. If you made it illegal to hate people then it would be getting somewhere, but then you'd have to justify that against our right to freedom of speech and opinions.

i'm not talking about making hatred illegal stop detracting man, I'm talking about you saying that enforcing those laws is gonna take some cultural mending, now if that is not what you meant by cultural mending then ok that's my mistake but that is clearly what it seems like in your post, you were responding to me regarding enforcing the laws that have not been enforced hence the need for affirmative action

this thread reminds me of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE "are you the Judean Peoples' Front?"

[quote="Android Bishop
No I haven't. I didn't spend a lot of time on it because the law ALREADY prevents one from discrimination based on race or ethnicity. That shit is already in place, so what is there to discuss about it?[/quote]

whats to discuss is that it can be circumvented. and often is, and just as you can give examples of its abuse, there are just as many cases where it is circumvented. and your personal experiences and saying its divisive are more about how you feel rather than reality. its only divisive if thats how you want to react. and blaming the recipients is ignorant.

starving student wrote:i'm not talking about making hatred illegal stop detracting man, I'm talking about you saying that enforcing those laws is gonna take some cultural mending, now if that is not what you meant by cultural mending then ok that's my mistake but that is clearly what it seems like in your post, you were responding to me regarding enforcing the laws that have not been enforced hence the need for affirmative action

I'm lost, I think we are having some kind of miscommunication clash and its turning into a train wreck.
I'll try to clarify my position

*Anti discrimination laws on the books are good, so long as they are equally and fairly enforced
*affirmative action laws and race-specific (or whatever) institutions are bad, because they only serve to maintain race separations
*Law is a product of culture. Anti discrimination laws are a part of cultural mending
*Cultural mending, in the bigger scheme of things (outside of the law), is what is really necessary to actually come close to solving these divisions. Different cultures have bleed into each other in order to begin to form a cohesive unit. It takes time to do this.

dredd i knight wrote: whats to discuss is that it can be circumvented. and often is, and just as you can give examples of its abuse, there are just as many cases where it is circumvented. and your personal experiences and saying its divisive are more about how you feel rather than reality. its only divisive if thats how you want to react. and blaming the recipients is ignorant.

a) Yes it probably is circumvented, but what does that have to do with the conversation at hand? Are you suggesting that because it can be circumvented that we also need artificial race specific incentives in order to fix it? I would argue that better, equal, fair enforcement is the only real fix.

b)the reality of these situations are based solely on people's feelings one way or another. Cultural differences, and subsequently racism, are products of the mind

c) I'm going to assume that your last statement that I'm "blaming the recipients" is referring to a very specific case at my mother's company. In this case, guess what, it is the recipient who is to blame. He was being fired for being a massive fuckup, but he decided to make it a race issue so he could sue the company for firing him. He is to blame, not my mother or the company. If you are referring to anything else you are out of line, because nowhere did I blame minorities for the bad policies of affirmative action or whatever. Bad policies are bad policies, I dont care who came up with them.

why are you meshing the two though, I don't know if people will ever give up on hatred, my personal opinion is that it is evil but I don't feel I have the right to try to change what's in any mans heart outside of expressing what is in my own but within the institutions of society is a whole other story and I feel that the laws could be enforced today and that these unfair issues in the workplace and in the schools and elsewhere can be stopped today. what I don't like about affirmative action is that it's lazy, I would much rather have a system that went in an office and yanked whom ever was committing racist actions in that office out of that office point blank. go from an affirmative action Equalizer Law to racism in the office ass get kicked out of the office Law.

starving student wrote:why are you meshing the two though, I don't know if people will ever give up on hatred, my personal opinion is that it is evil but I don't feel I have the right to try to change what's in any mans heart outside of expressing what is in my own but within the institutions of society is a whole other story and I feel that the laws could be enforced today and that these unfair issues in the workplace and in the schools and elsewhere can be stopped today. what I don't like about affirmative action is that it's lazy, I would much rather have a system that went in an office and yanked whom ever was committing racist actions in that office out of that office point blank. go from an affirmative action Equalizer Law to racism in the office ass get kicked out of the office Law.

I think you're trying too hard to debate me when we are actually on the same page here and its confusing things

Android Bishop wrote:

starving student wrote:why are you meshing the two though, I don't know if people will ever give up on hatred, my personal opinion is that it is evil but I don't feel I have the right to try to change what's in any mans heart outside of expressing what is in my own but within the institutions of society is a whole other story and I feel that the laws could be enforced today and that these unfair issues in the workplace and in the schools and elsewhere can be stopped today. what I don't like about affirmative action is that it's lazy, I would much rather have a system that went in an office and yanked whom ever was committing racist actions in that office out of that office point blank. go from an affirmative action Equalizer Law to racism in the office ass get kicked out of the office Law.

I think you're trying too hard to debate me when we are actually on the same page here and its confusing things

the same thing crossed my mind about you, lets hope thats the case cause we'd all be better off for that.

Student - I think you should know that Bishop PM'ed me to ask if you were always such a racist asshole or if this was some phase you're going through. I didn't know how to answer him, can you?

Tone Deft wrote:Student - I think you should know that Bishop PM'ed me to ask if you were always such a racist asshole or if this was some phase you're going through. I didn't know how to answer him, can you?

Its true, I did

Android Bishop wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:Student - I think you should know that Bishop PM'ed me to ask if you were always such a racist asshole or if this was some phase you're going through. I didn't know how to answer him, can you?

Its true, I did

So, you're not a racist; You're just a conniving little bitch