Ableton Forum

dom wrote:[
Mainly because they have no lights, therefore can't represent the state of your clip slots (empty, clip present, clip playing, clip recording) and you can't navigate and select which area of the session you want to control.


Cheers,
Dom

No, with an APC or a Launchpad (or a monodeck, the mother of all session view controllers) you don't.
That's the whole point about those toys.

Cheers,
Dom[/quote]

dude, some blinking lights don't tell you anything except clip is on, or off. unless you memorize everything, you're lost within 5 minutes if you have a complex set. it's ok the way it is, although bulky especially the apc. plz don't overdo it, the apc is good, but not THAT good. you need lcd screen. which is not a bad thing either.

BoimB son of BoB wrote:you need lcd screen.

like . . the one on your computer?

SubFunk wrote:@ dom, first of all i am someone who uses extensively the comp keyboard for as much as i can and any apps that allows me to do so.

I know!

SubFunk wrote: secondly building the APC for visual feedback? 8O 8O 8O

Sure, why else? There are already more than enough x by y button matrix devices available without session view integration - but there was only one monodeck.

SubFunk wrote: but actually i am not really surprised, as i seem the only one seeing ableton live as an musical instrument and not a DAW, i wonder when they start to built pianos, flutes, drums, guitars and other instruments with visual feedback as there most important feature :roll:

You're not the only one!



And you can't seriously compare those acoustical instruments to the APC as the behavior of the keys of a piano e.g. does not change dynamically with the context.
A c-2 is always a c-2 - but channel two on your apc may control channel 5 in Live.

Of yourse this does not stop people from building guitars and keyboards with LED equipped keys or fretboards.
But this is another story.

SubFunk wrote: Third, i said it would be nice to have the OPTION, you aparently can't read either... To be able to run it via buspower if wanted, that is more important to me than lights on what i consider to be 'a musicla instrument' to play live.

The APC makes no sense for what it was build for if you deactivate the session view LEDs and the LED rings of the encoders.
If a bus powered controller with lots of buttons but without LEDs is what you want it's not a design fault of the APC - it's just not the right product for you, isn't it?

Cheers,
Dom

Ed J wrote:

BoimB son of BoB wrote:you need lcd screen.

like . . the one on your computer?

err, yes that's what i mean. nothing wrong with a computer screen. look at the promotional video of apc on ableton site.

the guy LOOKS constantly at his lcd, of course he does.even if he would be performing, you'd only make things difficult NOT looking at your computer screen.

if not why bother with a red rectangle in session view in the first place.

the perfect product does not exist. however, monome or lauchpad are getting close to perfect in regard to their philosophy (which is a simple, but creative one)

SubFunk wrote:secondly building the APC for visual feedback?
but actually i am not really surprised, as i seem the only one seeing ableton live as an musical instrument and not a DAW, i wonder when they start to built pianos, flutes, drums, guitars and other instruments with visual feedback as there most important feature

you really are ignorant aren't you? no, arrogant even..
do you really think you are the one and only person who sees Live as an instrument?
think again mate.. Live's conception was all about it being an instrument rather than the next DAW..

your comparison to real world instruments fails bigtime..
this is COMPUTER music you're dealing with.. other abilities, other interaction, new methodologies..
a piano is pretty much a one dimensional instrument; its sound and maybe the feel and resistance of the keys is the only feedback you get/need..
everything you need to play it is just right there in front of you..

a computer as an instrument on the otherhand is deeply layered and interaction can get quite complex..
that's the biggest hurdle software developers have to take; keep complexity still playable..
devices as the APC/Monome/Launchpad really help you to keep track of what's going on inside the app..

SubFunk wrote:Third, i said it would be nice to have the OPTION, you aparently can't read either... To be able to run it via buspower if wanted, that is more important to me than lights on what i consider to be 'a musicla instrument' to play live.

yeah yeah.. the option.. we can all read..
its just that for me its one of the silliest requests in regard to what these devices are build for..
I think you already admitted that without the lights there isn't much you can also do with similar devices no?

yeah that subfunk guy is being ridiculous....anyway....This launchpad....
Does it trigger clips better than the Apc?
Cos APC sucks at triggering anything approaching an uptempo/drum solo feel. (example: triggering breaks at 170bpm with 1/8th quantisation)

Truly disapponted with it WHEN compared to my Padkontrol (mapped to a few clips). No timing accuracy wahtsoever on APc...! and for me that was the point. Instant mapped control!
The instant mapping is there but clip launching feels too SLUGGISH, and i have found the clip grid too small to be useful.

anyone else feels the same?

dna598 wrote:yeah that subfunk guy is being ridiculous....anyway....This launchpad....
Does it trigger clips better than the Apc?
Cos APC sucks at triggering anything approaching an uptempo/drum solo feel. (example: triggering breaks at 170bpm with 1/8th quantisation)

Truly disapponted with it WHEN compared to my Padkontrol (mapped to a few clips). No timing accuracy wahtsoever on APc...! and for me that was the point. Instant mapped control!
The instant mapping is there but clip launching feels too SLUGGISH, and i have found the clip grid too small to be useful.

anyone else feels the same?

Without trying it, I couldn't say... but to me the buttons on Launchpad seem to be lower than on an APC and a bit bigger. So I reckon it'll be easier to 'play' drums on the Launchpad.

I think Subfunk has a point. Visual feedback isn't the only thing the APC40 and Lauchpad have that isn't in Live's basic functionality. There's no way to have a movable grid of lauch buttons using other controllers. For me the vertical position would be enough, so you could lauch a clip for instance on track 3, 4 down from the current scene and on track 5, 2 down together. At least, not if you don't want to get involved with all this python scripting business.

That said, I'd rather have the lights myself. Will definately be getting one at some point.

Emissary wrote:... but it comes with an L shaped usb lead ....

I don't think so. Only in the fancy introduction video have they used an angled cable. All the vid's on Novations own youtube channel shows a bog standard grey straight cable...

Take a look at the six "tutorials" http://www.youtube.com/user/NovationTV#play/uploads

dna598 wrote: Truly disapponted with it WHEN compared to my Padkontrol (mapped to a few clips). No timing accuracy wahtsoever on APc...! and for me that was the point. Instant mapped control!

Why is that in your case? Is it because they're not drum pads that don't move and react directly to pressure instead of the button action in case of the APC buttons (the way it moves down a few millimeters when pressed)?
If so, the Launchpad buttons are bigger, but have nearly the same height as well as nearly the same travel distance as the APC.

Cheers,
Dom

Furland wrote:

Emissary wrote:... but it comes with an L shaped usb lead ....

I don't think so. Only in the fancy introduction video have they used an angled cable. All the vid's on Novations own youtube channel shows a bog standard grey straight cable...

Take a look at the six "tutorials" http://www.youtube.com/user/NovationTV#play/uploads

http://www.novationmusic.com/products/midi_controller/launchpad wrote:Connectivity

• L-shaped USB 1.1 connector.

dom wrote:

dna598 wrote: Truly disapponted with it WHEN compared to my Padkontrol (mapped to a few clips). No timing accuracy wahtsoever on APc...! and for me that was the point. Instant mapped control!

Why is that in your case? Is it because they're not drum pads that don't move and react directly to pressure instead of the button action in case of the APC buttons (the way it moves down a few millimeters when pressed)?
If so, the Launchpad buttons are bigger, but have nearly the same height as well as nearly the same travel distance as the APC.

Cheers,
Dom

Ha! Clearly I was wrong then: perhaps this is a lesson in not commenting on something until you've used it...

However, having learnt that lesson, let me comment further... If the buttons are bigger than APC ones then it should be easier to play drums on them. The guy in the demo vid seems to get on OK.

Dexes wrote:...• L-shaped USB 1.1 connector.

Fine then! Just seems weird that all other videos feature a different cable, but I do recognize the fact that it's brand new product the only reasonable assumption is that the supplier was out of angled cables...

But USB 1.1....... is it a show of Lo-Tek force we're seeing!

Furland wrote:

Dexes wrote:...• L-shaped USB 1.1 connector.

Fine then! Just seems weird that all other videos feature a different cable, but I do recognize the fact that it's brand new product the only reasonable assumption is that the supplier was out of angled cables...

But USB 1.1....... is it a show of Lo-Tek force we're seeing!

guess there is just no need for usb 2, just as long as usb 3 is backwards compatible with 1.1 (i'm sure it is)

Furland wrote:But USB 1.1....... is it a show of Lo-Tek force we're seeing!

USB 1.1 is capable to handle more challenging tasks then sending "a few" control commands and for this reason far beneath it's capabilities... As long as no audio is processed....

But I agree the term USB 1.1 itself sounds antiquated.