Ableton Forum

xh9o wrote:

stringtapper wrote:

xh9o wrote:i would not consider me a musician.

I had an inkling this was the case the way you kept using the term "songwriting." That's very telling of a narrow pop-centric approach to creating music. Which is fine. I do plenty of that myself. But to talk about "songwriting" as if you're speaking of the end-all-be-all of musical creation is naïve at best.

no its naive to call pop the only way of songwriting. nearly every better track is somehow a song, though it often differs from pop music formatation and the very direct approach of that format. but i don´t see the point of what you try to say. maybe there is no.

Yes, you don't get it because you're still talking about things like "tracks," revealing a very limited musical scope.

stringtapper wrote:Yes, you don't get it because you're still talking about things like "tracks," revealing a very limited musical scope.

ok, help me out. there is tracks, skits and songs, which divide between pop-essence and more freely designed. what have i missed so far? elephants?

You're German right? Ever heard of sonata form?

xh9o wrote:

i would say, it depends on how close your ear and mind can dial into sound, how far your understanding and devotion to sound goes.

You said digital could never have an analog sound through outboard. Now your admitting that you were wrong but this can only be attained through ears, understanding and devotion. Well no kidding. And now you back peddle entire analog vs digital nonsense into a "Well its fun for me the way I work".

Ok, so what if its fun for myself and others to automate the heck out of quality vstis (which i cannot do with my old real mini moog) and run them through outboard gear to see how analog we can make them sound? This is fun.


So whats your point again? You talk about people whom you don't know; about their weak minds, weak ears, wanna be producers, not enough talent to make digital sound analog without understanding & devotion and so on like your the analog gear master. Meanwhile, your sitting around with a Matrix 1000, a Moogerfooger and a giant chip on you shoulder making these wild unfounded accusations toward everyone elses abilities on the forum. I'm really curious. You have no music out, no quality outboard gear, no quality analog synths so what makes you think your qualified to be preaching on this subject to begin with? And using your own words, how trained can your ears and brain possibly be with no experience?


This whole thing has to be a joke. You have to be someone playing a prank.

stringtapper wrote:You're German right? Ever heard of sonata form?

sure, its an instrumental song basically.

xh9o wrote:and for me it was great fun to confront all your personal and vain opinions with simple facts, and while that giving the truth the privilege to be my opinion. great fun, thanks for all.

you don't use facts at all. you use subjective opinion without regard that (gasp) there might be people more talented and knowledgeable than you.

there's one positive, at least you're finding ways to start to be cool with people.

Chang wrote:You said digital could never have an analog sound through outboard. Now your admitting that you were wrong

absolutely not. learn to fuckin read. god.......

explained again for a 8 years old: i admitted that the digital sound will alter through analog rework while still sounding digital. at least in my ears, yes, cause i don´t want to speak for all. if you don´t hear it, ok, then re-tubing is the key. fine with you. but in my ears the digital is still dominating and no tube ramp of the world will fix that. sorry. learn to accept that some people will hear more than others.

xh9o wrote:

stringtapper wrote:You're German right? Ever heard of sonata form?

sure, its an instrumental song basically.

Man if it were actually that simple! I'd already have my Phd.

Back to school for you I'm afraid!

Tone Deft wrote:you don't use facts at all. you use subjective opinion without regard that (gasp)

thsta more what you in here do. but hell, thats going in circles. its awful as smart democrats vs. stupid republics. wtf

there might be people more talented and knowledgeable than you.

no, opposite. i was and am always very happy to find such. i don´t want to be surrounded by people even more stupid than me. this has a bad influence on me. there still is lots of people in every corner of life who are ahead, and that gives a certain kind of security that life isn´t over yet. but usually these are not guys like those yelling the same bullshit all over and over again and forcing me to do so as well. i have had enough experience in discussion and people to name differences very easily.

Chang wrote:You have to be someone playing a prank.

I'm quite sure he's a troll, really. I bought it for a good while, but there was just a touch too much irony when he replied to my (rather coherent) post with nothing but a "so much words" remark, as he's the one who has typed this thing through fifteen pages

(And now he's trying to do a 180 by going for the "I'm a quality conversationalist and you're just repeating the same bullshit" card even though he's the one who uses the said discussion/trolling strategy. Details...)

So yeah. I think there's actually something good to be found in this thread when you read between the lines, but keeping it going is definitely not worth it.

stringtapper wrote:Man if it were actually that simple! I'd already have my Phd.

Back to school for you I'm afraid!

sure, life is always a school to be in. good thing. but even though i didn´t have the ambition to write a sonate, i know that its basically just a common and stadardized way of giving instrumental music a complexity and shape. that this shape - on first sight - differs much from pop songwriting is nothing that the school of life has to teach me again. but a sonate from bach for instance is exactly the opposite of nebula/internet people´s music - on the songwriting quality scale.

xh9o wrote:

Chang wrote:You said digital could never have an analog sound through outboard. Now your admitting that you were wrong

absolutely not. learn to fuckin read. god.......

explained again for a 8 years old: i admitted that the digital sound will alter through analog rework while still sounding digital. at least in my ears, yes, cause i don´t want to speak for all. if you don´t hear it, ok, then re-tubing is the key. fine with you. but in my ears the digital is still dominating and no tube ramp of the world will fix that. sorry. learn to accept that some people will hear more than others.

Your mad. I mean really mad. And again, you have self admittedly no mixing experience, but somehow through your years and years of no experience and lack of knowledge & gear were supposed to believe you have the golden ears to pick out vsti ran through front end, analog filters and tape vs a real piece of analog gear in an a/b comparison?

Thats the funniest thing I've ever heard. If I find the time, I will make an a/b comparison test to see how gold your ears truly are.

xh9o wrote:

stringtapper wrote:Man if it were actually that simple! I'd already have my Phd.

Back to school for you I'm afraid!

sure, life is always a school to be in. good thing. but even though i didn´t have the ambition to write a sonate, i know that its basically just a common and stadardized way of giving instrumental music a complexity and shape. that this shape - on first sight - differs much from pop songwriting is nothing that the school of life has to teach me again. but a sonate from bach for instance is exactly the opposite of nebula/internet people´s music - on the songwriting quality scale.

And my point is that you're included in the "Internet people" category.

Chang wrote:you have self admittedly no mixing experience, but somehow through your years and years of no experience and lack of knowledge & gear were supposed to believe you have the golden ears to pick out vsti ran through front end, analog filters and tape vs a real piece of analog gear in an a/b comparison?

kid, i have admitted "no much analog recording" experiences as i have only a few acoustic tracks and one electronic ep recorded analog. but i have mixed and esperimented a relative lot beyond the record button situation. i´m not so much out for records so far, maybe thats coming later if my time will.

but independent from that, it doesn´t matter so much how long or how much. quantity aspect is not enough and especially not my strength since i´m lazy most of the time and therefore live much by situative concentration bringing a quick quality process.

Tone Deft wrote:Hitler was a vegetarian.

Right up there with most worthless point you've ever made. Again with the exceptions, not the rule. It's like saying because Manson was a hippie all hippies are violent. Jeffrey Dahmer as an example of a meat eater etc.

Stick to DSP, you're pro meat anti vegetarian arguments are far too emotionally based, Mrs. Palin!