[ot] - kim jong ill, nuclear at last!

[mikemc]

What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

And of course It's Not Fair. But a lot of things happened based on a lot of morally bad premises, and there are people in those beset-upon regions hold onto a lot of riches and power because of that. So is it now an international exercise in each ot these cases, determining what's now fair?

I would presume that these are the same americans who also believe that the british and french still "owe" them for liberating/helping them out 60 years ago during the war...

I'd have to say that the main thing that permits that memory to persist as long as it has at this point is Hollywood movies on the subject.

[edit] and news items like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4757181.stm

[noisetonepause]

Chopped off their heads?

You're mistaken. No NATO forces chop off people's heads. That's Al-Zarqawi and his Al-Qaeda pig-fucker friends you're thinking of.

Ah, we meet again.

My head-chopping accusations were directed towards my country and continents history of colonialism. In your country, the French taught the Indigenous peoples to take scalps. That's just one example.

I have however never seen evidence of al-Qaeda members sodomising pigs nor sheep. But then in your world I suppose that's what Muslims do when they're not beating their wives about or blowing themselves up. As you've proven so many times before, it's no use to try and refute your idiotic insults, since you just won't have it. I suppose I'll have to accept that.

As far as living the good life goes, hey man - I've earned my good life, and I haven't taken anything away from anybody. I'm a net contributor to society and the world as a whole. People around the world are better off for my being here and doing what I do, even though just slightly.

Even the Chinese that make your cheap trainers?

Your Taliban buddies there Paws are the opposite - they're parasites who make life worse for the people around them in every way.

I have no friends in the Taliban. I am, however, a talib, of the tullab, as are the majority of my friends...

(I suspect that joke is lost on you, what with your history of using Arabic terms that you've no understanding of)

Ultimately, I don't accept your blame that somehow the world's problems are the fault of my society. If people living in an ignorant, dogmatic, midieval society ever decide to embrace rationality and secularism, maybe they could enjoy the same benefits that we (the North / West) do.

I am sad if not surprised to see that your ignorance of history is as flawless as your ignorance of contemporary issues.

Love,
Paws

[noisetonepause]

What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

And of course It's Not Fair. But a lot of things happened based on a lot of morally bad premises, and there are people in those beset-upon regions hold onto a lot of riches and power because of that. So is it now an international exercise in each ot these cases, determining what's now fair?

I dunno, man. I just don't expect people to take gang raping with a smile and a thank you.

[mikemc]

What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

And of course It's Not Fair. But a lot of things happened based on a lot of morally bad premises, and there are people in those beset-upon regions hold onto a lot of riches and power because of that. So is it now an international exercise in each ot these cases, determining what's now fair?

I dunno, man. I just don't expect people to take gang raping with a smile and a thank you.

me neither, this is why it's all a little crazy.

[kennerb]

Do the pants come with the overboard?

I don't think the pants do but continuous riding of the hoverboard will enlarge the head to be abnormally oversized as noted in the above picture.

[pilcrow]

What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

Passing over the weird perception of history there, I am intrigued by that word fair. Name the last time anything fair ever happened between countries. It's not fair! heh. Newsflash, that.

Fair or not, I'm for trying to prevent anyone's cutting my head off.

[noisetonepause]

Passing over the weird perception of history there, I am intrigued by that word fair. Name the last time anything fair ever happened between countries. It's not fair! heh. Newsflash, that.

Fair or not, I'm for trying to prevent anyone's cutting my head off.

Booh! I was hoping I could bring all my Taliban friends round yours friday to fuck your domesticated animals and drink chai out of your head after we'd chopped it off with a rusty breadknife.

Love,
Paws
(in a weird sort of mood)

[subterFUSE]

What? We come over there, take all their land, chop off their heads and steal their oil... and you want them to 'forgive'? Bah. Bah, I say. Bah. Even now, we're living the good life cos people in the Middle East, Africa, etc. aren't. You want them to just accept that? I can't see how that's fair.

Chopped off their heads?

You're mistaken. No NATO forces chop off people's heads. That's Al-Zarqawi and his Al-Qaeda pig-fucker friends you're thinking of.

As far as living the good life goes, hey man - I've earned my good life, and I haven't taken anything away from anybody. I'm a net contributor to society and the world as a whole. People around the world are better off for my being here and doing what I do, even though just slightly. Your Taliban buddies there Paws are the opposite - they're parasites who make life worse for the people around them in every way.

Ultimately, I don't accept your blame that somehow the world's problems are the fault of my society. If people living in an ignorant, dogmatic, midieval society ever decide to embrace rationality and secularism, maybe they could enjoy the same benefits that we (the North / West) do.

Hating Bush/America is just a fashion craze.

[mikemc]

My head-chopping accusations were directed towards my country and continents history of colonialism.

So maybe the question is, if our ideal 'first world' strives towards pro-peace, reasonable, thoughtfully progressive harmonious living and eschewing a colonial past, what do we do in the meantime about the people who are acting on revenge over things like cartoons?

[M. Bréqs]

Chopped off their heads?

You're mistaken. No NATO forces chop off people's heads. That's Al-Zarqawi and his Al-Qaeda pig-fucker friends you're thinking of.

Ah, we meet again.

My head-chopping accusations were directed towards my country and continents history of colonialism. In your country, the French taught the Indigenous peoples to take scalps. That's just one example.

I have however never seen evidence of al-Qaeda members sodomising pigs nor sheep. But then in your world I suppose that's what Muslims do when they're not beating their wives about or blowing themselves up. As you've proven so many times before, it's no use to try and refute your idiotic insults, since you just won't have it. I suppose I'll have to accept that.

You're right - I doubt that many do that to pigs, that was hyperbole. Perhaps I should have said child-molesting polygamists or apostate-stoners or rape victim executors or mass murderers instead?

As far as living the good life goes, hey man - I've earned my good life, and I haven't taken anything away from anybody. I'm a net contributor to society and the world as a whole. People around the world are better off for my being here and doing what I do, even though just slightly.

Even the Chinese that make your cheap trainers?

Well, my running shoes are made in Canada, and I am a very conscious consumer. That said, the economic exploitation of sweat-shop labour is mostly facilitated by the host nations... If all of them actually tried to protect their own people and not race to the bottom, there wouldn't be that problem. Maybe what they need is an international union.

Yes, Western Civilization has its bad points - many of my fellows are only too ignorant of the human costs of cheap labour. However, democracy, personal freedom and rationalism are all products of that same civilization. I would argue that we contribute more to the world's wellbeing than we contribute to world suffering. If North American / European / Japanese / Australian aid (and economic activity) were to disappear overnight, the majority of the world's population would suddenly find itself in far worse state.

The worst thing that can happen to the planet is renewed American isolationism.

Your Taliban buddies there Paws are the opposite - they're parasites who make life worse for the people around them in every way.

I have no friends in the Taliban. I am, however, a talib, of the tullab, as are the majority of my friends...

(I suspect that joke is lost on you, what with your history of using Arabic terms that you've no understanding of)

I get your meaning - a Talib is a student, the Taliban literally means nothing more than that, but they have self identified as raving, murdering psychos, so the term unforutnately sticks. For having no friends in the Taliban, you sure seem to want to help them out by decrying our efforts to help out the Afghan people. Perhaps not personal friends, but ideological / religious comrades perhaps?

...and you have failed to refute my point that they are parasites who make life worse for their own people (and Canadians who send our sons and brothers to die and be injured at their hands in an effort to help).

Ultimately, I don't accept your blame that somehow the world's problems are the fault of my society. If people living in an ignorant, dogmatic, midieval society ever decide to embrace rationality and secularism, maybe they could enjoy the same benefits that we (the North / West) do.

I am sad if not surprised to see that your ignorance of history is as flawless as your ignorance of contemporary issues.

Love,
Paws

I am sad if not surprised to see that your ignorance of history is as flawless as your ignorance of contemporary issues.

nyah-nyah-na-nyah-nyah.

respect,
Bréqs

[noisetonepause]

You're right - I doubt that many do that to pigs, that was hyperbole. Perhaps I should have said child-molesting polygamists or apostate-stoners or rape victim executors or mass murderers instead?

Seeing as al-Qaeda are to my knowledge more of a militia than a police force and are not enforcing laws anywhere, only the last point on that last applies.

Well, my running shoes are made in Canada, and I am a very conscious consumer. That said, the economic exploitation of sweat-shop labour is mostly facilitated by the host nations... If all of them actually tried to protect their own people and not race to the bottom, there wouldn't be that problem. Maybe what they need is an international union.

Communist!

Yes, Western Civilization has its bad points - many of my fellows are only too ignorant of the human costs of cheap labour. However, democracy, personal freedom and rationalism are all products of that same civilization. I would argue that we contribute more to the world's wellbeing than we contribute to world suffering. If North American / European / Japanese / Australian aid (and economic activity) were to disappear overnight, the majority of the world's population would suddenly find itself in far worse state.

I'm not quite sure of the maths, there, but you are of course correct that we have historically contributed both good and bad things. In some places the bad is more obvious than the good, though (think Once Were Warriors).

The worst thing that can happen to the planet is renewed American isolationism.

I don't know. I'm not sure it would be good, granted, but the current state of Project For The New American Century domination has IMHO hitherto not been a success.

I get your meaning - a Talib is a student, the Taliban literally means nothing more than that,

Very good!

but they have self identified as raving, murdering psychos, so the term unforutnately sticks. For having no friends in the Taliban, you sure seem to want to help them out by decrying our efforts to help out the Afghan people. Perhaps not personal friends, but ideological / religious comrades perhaps?

I have not had religious comrades in Afghanistan for at least fifteen hundred years. The Taliban made a quite direct attack on 'my heritage', so my disproval of the Coalition invasion is most certainly not based on sympathy for them.

(You'll know that very few Muslims actually sympathise with the Taliban - even some of the most radical ones find them exceptionally stupid)

...and you have failed to refute my point that they are parasites who make life worse for their own people (and Canadians who send our sons and brothers to die and be injured at their hands in an effort to help).

I have not "failed to", I have "not tried to".

I am sad if not surprised to see that your ignorance of history is as flawless as your ignorance of contemporary issues.

Love,
Paws

I am sad if not surprised to see that your ignorance of history is as flawless as your ignorance of contemporary issues.

nyah-nyah-na-nyah-nyah.

respect,
Bréqs

Yeah? Well YOU SMELL!

So there!
-P

[sweetjesus]

maybe what wasnt finished in 1953 has waited until now

just saying

oh you have no idea how right you are there... just a different facet:

some things which happened in 1953:

Tony Blair, George Tenet & Jeb Bush were born
USA Made the Hbomb
USA made nuclear missiles
Castro rose to power
the brits made the CIA overthrow the iranian government of the time

Here is a thing, this is a thing that is gnawing at me, and the above is the example: the Iranian overthrow is *the thing* that the Iranian extremist anti-US hardliners are pissed off about. In general, sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about. Governments manipulate each other, manipulate populations, it happens, and it affects real people.

You have very little scope about longterm events. The events of 1953 along with amrican and french politics regarding sales of nuclear tech to both saddam and iran along with irans oil policy directly lead to the islamic revolution in 1977.

In 1984 americans were taken hostage in iran by the new government fearing a similar coup as 1953 but turned into a massive fuck-up. This resulted in the US cutting diplomatic relations with Iran.

In 1988 a commuter plane carrying passengers was shot down after it took off from a southern iranian port. It was shot down by the US navy. I'm sure many people (in iran) saw that as retaliation for 1984.

So I think you failt to see the cumulative effects of an action.

Now, I think I am not wrong in typifying the everyday American response to be "Damn, all of this sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about! They can work themselves up to get just as pissed off about it today! That's crazy, move on, get over it!"

Now of course, you say that to someone who was involved in those things, you are only hurting them more. How is it possible to reconcile that view with the people who are so emotionally invested in what happened that long ago?

because it didnt happen so long ago...

because families are still suffering from the loss of loved ones dead or fucked up from chemical weapons, components of which were sold by the USA to iraq and saddam happily used them against kurds and iranians.

I was aboard that plane which got shot down on a few hours beforehand yet like many, I am not emotionally vested in events of the past.. but common sense comes into play when you look at the position of Iran as a country who the usa loves to fuck with and they have a massive deployment of american soldiers on their east and west door steps.

[edit] it seems like both extremes are crazy, but there should be some median reasonable point.

the smartest thing you have said and this is the position i take on the matter... there is no middleground anymore.

the cowboys vs indians ... good vs evils .. cops and robbers mentality has taken over the everyday ideology of people where every action is divided up into a black or a white one.

[noisetonepause]

islamic revolution in 1977.

79.

Other than that, you're right.

[mikemc]

oh you have no idea how right you are there... just a different facet:

some things which happened in 1953:

Tony Blair, George Tenet & Jeb Bush were born
USA Made the Hbomb
USA made nuclear missiles
Castro rose to power
the brits made the CIA overthrow the iranian government of the time

Here is a thing, this is a thing that is gnawing at me, and the above is the example: the Iranian overthrow is *the thing* that the Iranian extremist anti-US hardliners are pissed off about. In general, sh*t that went down 50, 60, 70 years ago is what these people are pissed off about. Governments manipulate each other, manipulate populations, it happens, and it affects real people.

You have very little scope about longterm events. The events of 1953 along with amrican and french politics regarding sales of nuclear tech to both saddam and iran along with irans oil policy directly lead to the islamic revolution in 1977.

In 1984 americans were taken hostage in iran by the new government fearing a similar coup as 1953 but turned into a massive fuck-up. This resulted in the US cutting diplomatic relations with Iran.

In 1988 a commuter plane carrying passengers was shot down after it took off from a southern iranian port. It was shot down by the US navy. I'm sure many people (in iran) saw that as retaliation for 1984.

So I think you failt to see the cumulative effects of an action.

No, I am grasping the longterm events, I'm describing what I'm observing as the way most Americans see things.

What you've said, the chain of events, is exactly what I'm referring to. My point, if I have one (which clearly I don't ) is that if this historically narrow scope that I have characterized is the way that the majority of the Americans see the world, then there is great difficulty avoiding this

the cowboys vs indians ... good vs evils .. cops and robbers mentality has taken over the everyday ideology of people where every action is divided up into a black or a white one.

being the predominant world wide polarization to which there is no rational resolution, only a kind of stagnating Orwellian superbloc stalemate.

I'm not stupid, I just look this way, I can't help it.

Now, back to Canada vs. Denmark: The Polite Quest for Western Arctic Hegemony

[noisetonepause]

Now, back to Canada vs. Denmark: The Polite Quest for Western Arctic Hegemony

Ah, don't bring that up. There'll be fighting!