Ableton Forum

Wow, I had no idea this was a Live limitation until very recently. I had seen similar issues in Sonar once upon a time, so I figured it was a limitation inherent to the VST specification. A Native Instruments rep. told me it was a Live thing, and frankly I thought he was blowing smoke. Now I feel like the idiot...

YES THIS ABSOLUTELY MUST BE ADDRESSED. I've got some plugins that are severely hamstrung by this limitation.

*raising hand* just in case I find out in the future that some of my NI plugs might come with lots more than 128 parameters (Kontakt could be a candidate I guess).

Try Guitar Rig - something on the order of 10x as many as that.

Cmon abes, lets get this into the next update so we dont have to spend so much time bitching about it and finding half assed workarounds.

Timur wrote:Just for the record: You can use Kore to overcome the 128 limit somewhat. What you do is put an instance of Kore on the track and an instance of your VSTi into Kore (like FM8). Then you map your desired VSTi parameters to Kore's parameters (freely assignable) and in Live you automate those Kore parameters.

Here is an example showing parts of Kore 2's default mapping for the FM8 highlighting the desired ARP switch:

EVERYBODY BUY KORE 2 TO FIX THIS.



On second thought, probably not gonna happen.

Abes should fix it.

+1

I'm not crazy about the idea of running another layer of software to fix a base-level problem, but I am curious, can you use the freebie release of Kore that NI just announced in order to work around this problem? Maybe I should look into that as a holdover.

PFFF, Version 7 and not FIXED
WE WANT MORE CCS

mbenigni wrote:I'm not crazy about the idea of running another layer of software to fix a base-level problem, but I am curious, can you use the freebie release of Kore that NI just announced in order to work around this problem? Maybe I should look into that as a holdover.

Great question, was wondering myself... anyone figure out if the free Kore works for this?

RedBrooklyn wrote:

mbenigni wrote:I'm not crazy about the idea of running another layer of software to fix a base-level problem, but I am curious, can you use the freebie release of Kore that NI just announced in order to work around this problem? Maybe I should look into that as a holdover.

Great question, was wondering myself... anyone figure out if the free Kore works for this?

it doesnt. kore free can only host Kore Packs; no external vsti's can be loaded into Kore free - not even NI's own instruments.
can't believe this is STILL an issue. i'll be quite, quite pissed if a fix doesnt appear in live 7. if they make this a 'new feature' in 8, that would be supremely shitty.
*pffffft*

Anyone know of another plug-in, host or device besides Kore that could be used in Live and could access more than 128 params of another plugin such as Guitar Rig?

Would using the full version of Kore to host Guitar Rig inside a Live channel create more latency?

-R

bumpsky

yeh this is a worthwhile feature.

+1 this is a dealbreaker for a potential buyer such as myself, along with no fades/x-fades and folder tracks. Can't automate the cutoff on Zebra2's filters

Stayin with Cubase for now, this is a showstopper!

Anybody else get the nagging feeling that ableton doesn't give a shit about this at all and probably wont ever address the issue?

This is why I decided to buy Sonar 7 and Project 5 instead.

Frank Hoffmann wrote:

WaveRider wrote:

hoffman2k wrote:it has something to do with the amount of parameters some plugins have.
They go from 1 to 10000+.
I think ableton decided on 128 parameters, so that things wouldn't be to confusing.

They made a statement about that once, but i cant find where it was posted.

cheers

Thank you very much for the answer.

128 is just not enough!!!!!!!! It is an arbitrary limit that should not be so low.... that does not make very power user-friendly.....

..I do not like when devs start to think when things are too confusing for me... just give me access please....

...in any case, I bought Live 4 because it was VSTi compatible, but limitations are there. There is a severe oversight concerning the undo history/parameter editing also. (posted too)

Sorry, there is a misunderstanding. We didn't think it is confusing. It is simply unusable in terms of GUI and management. Live will most likely never support more than 128 parameter for automation in plug-in at the same time.

The problem is that you are limited to just the first 128 parameters in Live 4/5. In a future version you will have the choice and select which parameters you prefer to automate.

Frank

So I found this, and pretty much confirmed what I expected. This is completely unacceptable. I cant think of any other DAW that has this arbitrary limitation and I dont see why we should have to micromanage all of our vsts by rearranging the entire parameter list to do something that is SO EASY in every other DAW. Jesus, even in bloody Sonar, a nightmare as far as workflow goes, is as easy as hitting "record" and moving parameters around. ANY parameter. All available in a simple drop down list too.

Saying that the GUI is too cumbersome to implement this basic functionality is being downright lazy. Shit I can even think of ways to do it in Live that would be easy.

*set a border limit similar to how it is now, or an even better example is drum racks
*parameters outside of the border go on the next page down
*have page up/page down arrow controls and a text box with a [current page]/[total pages] format so one can type a number into the current page text box to instantly skip to a certain page

There. All there is to it.

Frank Hoffmann wrote:Sorry, there is a misunderstanding. We didn't think it is confusing. It is simply unusable in terms of GUI and management. Live will most likely never support more than 128 parameter for automation in plug-in at the same time.

The problem is that you are limited to just the first 128 parameters in Live 4/5. In a future version you will have the choice and select which parameters you prefer to automate.

Frank

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