Very OT, 9/11

FireForEffect · Post by **FireForEffect** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:34 am

Look, your ideas are the fringe of society computo. They truly are. The percentage of people who think this kind of grand conspiracy BS numbers probably less than 1% of the population and for good reason.

Niave I am not and especially when it comes to business and politics. Wars COST money my friend not make money. Simple economics. You have it backwards. Do you have ANY idea how much 9/11 cost this country? Do you have any idea how dependant the WORLD is on our stock market? A terror attack could very well destory our economy, and that is NOT good for business. If anything is obvious is that big government likes big business. They go hand in hand.

I urge you to try and use your head and think about this using logic, I know you aren't a stupid guy. I have read some of your non-political posts, surely if you follow linear logic you can see that what you are saying makes little sense.

Now on to the other post...
Retard? Yeah um right. Excellent debate/discussion skills..truly classy. If you are unaware of Iran's long history of sponsoring terror you would be wise to educate yourself before calling people retards. You just make yourself look foolish and people who are lurking will think people on this forum are childish. Learn a little about what jihad is and what it means to YOU as an infidel. Then get back to me.

On one level, you’re right about oil. It’s the strategic background to everything we do in the Persian Gulf. But it is fair to say that oil was not the thing that led the United States to go to war. The people who are arguing for the Iraq war were not basing it on access to oil. They were arguing it on weapons of mass destruction, on the idea we would transform Iraq or the region politically and the fact that sanctions were broken time and time again for years. This was not a war about control of oil. Nor will a war with Iran be about oil. That notion is foolish at best and a waste of both our time to discuss.

Now, Iran...a rogue state with a history of sponsoring terrorists seeks to develop weapons of mass destruction. The US tries to work with European allies to deal with the problem peacefully, depending on IEAE inspections and UN sanctions. The Europeans are generally hesitant and wishful. Russia and China are difficult and obstructive. Eventually the reality of the threat becomes too obvious to be ignored.

Speaking of oil...Iran has offered N. Korea oil for help with their nuke program. How nice. I take it you are one of the "no blood for oil" crowd. Do you have a "Bush=Hitler" sign at the ready? I recommend you get at least a basic understanding of the worlds oil trade before making intellectually dishonest statements such as you have. Mexico is the #5 top oil producing country, why don't we invade Mexico is we want oil so badly?

If we could lesson our dependance on foreign oil we would all be better off. Drilling ANWAR would be the first step. Everyone knows this can be done safely, but our dependency on foreign oil is increased every time we deny an offshore drilling permit. Also increasing tax incentives for drilling on land. There are incentives in place, but they are not sufficient. Oil drilling is expensive and risky, and tax incentives are the best way to encourage oil exploration.

I will leave you with this(and this is directed at all of you who feel the need to personally insult people on this forum). Have any of you considered that you are the ones claiming to be so open minded about the world yet here you are personally insulting people because they have a differant opinion of things than you? How far do you think that will get you in the music business or ANY business for that matter? Its called civility people..look into it. Many of you act like 12 year olds. If you want to sit at the adults table, try to act like an adult.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:36 am

i think the scariest thing about all this is that djadonis' opinion is probably the best representation of the country. People just don't give a fuck.

We're so caught up in bs materialism that our cars are more important than, oh, the legality of our government.

fuck it man, i don't care either, bring on "operation: rest of the brown ones." Liberate that shit, fill up my SUV gas tank with it and pave the whole fucking place over so i can drive drunk on it.

.lm.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:35 am

Sounds like you've watched too much Fox news.

If you wanna talk class, your comment 'iran can eat a nuke' is what makes you a retard.

It's logic from people with disregard for common sense such as yourself which puts countries like Iran in a position to even think about wanting a Nuke. Who is the only country who has used a nuclear weapon? USA! And countries like Iran are damn afraid of such use of force especially when it has been shown how easily its neighbor has been attacked by the USA and how the war machine is now pointing toward Iran.

Your inability to see what caused this situation in the first place is blinding your oxygen in its attempt to find your brain.

Iran has given oil to north korea? So what, it was just revealed Australia gave $300,000,000 under the table cash in kickbacks to Saddam from wheat exports.. does that make Australia evil in nature and in search of world domination? NO.

Why are you saying Iran is a rogue state when Pakistan, India, Israel, Russia and other nations in the region have nuclear weapons...

Iran's shown sponsorship of terrorism, but then the USA created that scenario for themselves.

Try and act civilised now, but you're still full of it mate and you showed your true colors with your eating nukes statement.

FireForEffect wrote:Look, your ideas are the fringe of society computo. They truly are. The percentage of people who think this kind of grand conspiracy BS numbers probably less than 1% of the population and for good reason.

Niave I am not and especially when it comes to business and politics. Wars COST money my friend not make money. Simple economics. You have it backwards. Do you have ANY idea how much 9/11 cost this country? Do you have any idea how dependant the WORLD is on our stock market? A terror attack could very well destory our economy, and that is NOT good for business. If anything is obvious is that big government likes big business. They go hand in hand.

I urge you to try and use your head and think about this using logic, I know you aren't a stupid guy. I have read some of your non-political posts, surely if you follow linear logic you can see that what you are saying makes little sense.

Now on to the other post...
Retard? Yeah um right. Excellent debate/discussion skills..truly classy. If you are unaware of Iran's long history of sponsoring terror you would be wise to educate yourself before calling people retards. You just make yourself look foolish and people who are lurking will think people on this forum are childish. Learn a little about what jihad is and what it means to YOU as an infidel. Then get back to me.

On one level, you’re right about oil. It’s the strategic background to everything we do in the Persian Gulf. But it is fair to say that oil was not the thing that led the United States to go to war. The people who are arguing for the Iraq war were not basing it on access to oil. They were arguing it on weapons of mass destruction, on the idea we would transform Iraq or the region politically and the fact that sanctions were broken time and time again for years. This was not a war about control of oil. Nor will a war with Iran be about oil. That notion is foolish at best and a waste of both our time to discuss.

Obviously nobody in any position of power will say that they are going straight for the black gold, but the reality is an environment where oil trade can continue unaffected is exactly what they would have been seeking.

Since Iran brought up the effect on oil prices should sanctions be implemented, the whole media has gone on full red alert. The truth is, your economy is screwed without oil. You go digging up north for oil and you will continue to screw up the earth... and any moron with half a brain cell could see at the time how much false data was available at the time when the whole WMD propaganda was being shown to the public.

Also, who is the USA to decide to impose democracy on a nation and transform a region? The world police? The middle east is a region which has been doing its own thing.. whether its fighting or being civil, but it has been there doing its own thing long before the USA was a twinkle in george washington's eye. You have no right to tell them how to choose their government.

Now, Iran...a rogue state with a history of sponsoring terrorists seeks to develop weapons of mass destruction. The US tries to work with European allies to deal with the problem peacefully, depending on IEAE inspections and UN sanctions. The Europeans are generally hesitant and wishful. Russia and China are difficult and obstructive. Eventually the reality of the threat becomes too obvious to be ignored.

Speaking of oil...Iran has offered N. Korea oil for help with their nuke program. How nice. I take it you are one of the "no blood for oil" crowd. Do you have a "Bush=Hitler" sign at the ready? I recommend you get at least a basic understanding of the worlds oil trade before making intellectually dishonest statements such as you have. Mexico is the #5 top oil producing country, why don't we invade Mexico is we want oil so badly?

If we could lesson our dependance on foreign oil we would all be better off. Drilling ANWAR would be the first step. Everyone knows this can be done safely, but our dependency on foreign oil is increased every time we deny an offshore drilling permit. Also increasing tax incentives for drilling on land. There are incentives in place, but they are not sufficient. Oil drilling is expensive and risky, and tax incentives are the best way to encourage oil exploration.

I will leave you with this(and this is directed at all of you who feel the need to personally insult people on this forum). Have any of you considered that you are the ones claiming to be so open minded about the world yet here you are personally insulting people because they have a differant opinion of things than you? How far do you think that will get you in the music business or ANY business for that matter? Its called civility people..look into it. Many of you act like 12 year olds. If you want to sit at the adults table, try to act like an adult.

Sounds like you don't know how to take an insult. It basically means that someone has the balls to tell you what they think of you in a manner which should get through a skull which is more than likely over an inch thick.

I will continue to insult you as long as you speak such crap as even the hint of suggesting that any country having nuclear weapons used against them.

And also sounds like you have not done any serious business or dealt with many people high up in the music 'industry', swearing does a lot of good for both of those things sometimes.

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:57 am

FireForEffect wrote:money is a factor yes? So why would "they" do something to cause the economy problems? A major terror strike such as a nuke or multi city nuke may very well crash the stock market and THAT is NOT something any politician wants regardless of their party lines.

first of all, you are spewing shit under the assumption that the people at the highest echelons of power in the USA are honest people. You are merely a prole to these people. Remember that. Anyways, like I stated earlier gold went through the roof thanks to september the 11th. And as I believe computo said, they made a packet from insurance too. Individuals did that is, or corporations (the same thing by US law anyways). You pions at the bottom, you just keep trying to get to the next level on grand theft auto on the psp. and watch your tivo, and only worry if you should watch it in bed or not.

http://money.cnn.com/2001/09/11/markets/oil/

computo wrote: with prior knowledge, whether it does good or bad, someone could stand to make literally billions from these attacks and the subsequent police state buildup and wars.

I mean, how blind must one make themself, to deny the evidence here?

The put options placed on the Towers in the days and hours leading up to the attacks...

How about Silverstiens take on the insurance? ever investigate that?

No, you didnt, because you're too busy sucking your governors toes, thanking him for giving you the privilege to be an artist.

You'll never learn anything about what happened if you dont want to know.

<sarcasm> oh but they wouldnt do that! </sarcasm>

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:58 am

leisuremuffin wrote:i think the scariest thing about all this is that djadonis' opinion is probably the best representation of the country. People just don't give a fuck.

We're so caught up in bs materialism that our cars are more important than, oh, the legality of our government.

fuck it man, i don't care either, bring on "operation: rest of the brown ones." Liberate that shit, fill up my SUV gas tank with it and pave the whole fucking place over so i can drive drunk on it.

.lm.

my sentiments exactly

henry ford · Post by **henry ford** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:45 pm

oh and kind of off the topic, but why are shitmill and fireforeffect so hungup on music as an enterprise to turn profit ?

i'm involved just for the sake of it. I suppose its just a fundamental difference between us, and hardly a coincidence considering our beliefs.

If you want to label me, I think a socialist would be pretty close to the mark. Doctors should heal for the sake of it, not for a mercedes. and so on and so forth.

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:48 pm

apathy is fucked.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

pilcrow · Post by **pilcrow** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:17 pm

am wrote: Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can

heh. I wonder if Lennon could.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:23 pm

One point I'd like to make real quick:

While I believe that a lot of the conspiricy theory stuff is well within the bounds of possibility, i think that it is counter productive to use it as the fulcrum of an argument against the US military actions. Truly, most people cannot accept those ideas, and frankly, they are irrelavant. Whether or not 9/11 had any shady things about it does not change the fact that our actions after that event are wrong. Let's take 9/11 at face value for a second, assuming it was done by a muslim terrorist organizition. How does that justify a war in Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq? Terrorist organizations ARE NOT sovereign nations and cannot be treated as if they are. A true "war against terror" would spend most of it's resources on rooting out the terrorist organization and eliminating it, not running over a whole country. Our presense in the middle east now only serves to swell the ranks of terrorist organizations, not crush them.

.lm.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:47 pm

sweetjesus wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:, but that headline on every newspaper made me shiver.....
Hey dude, which headline are you talking about?

And yeah Iran is pretty pissed at decades of their affairs being meddled with by USA/UK. Specifically the CIA operation which launched a military coup against the prime minister of the time (Mossadeq).

In Iran, the government is very dubious of every action the west takes. The other day during a press conference an interpreter translated "we have the right to nuclear power" as "we have the right to nuclear weapons" ... little things like this do add up and make one paranoid about intentions towards ones nation.

I'm more interested in the headline which made ya spook out though... what was it?

The headline (on major Belgian newspapers...) read "Iran is getting ready to attack Europe".

The article was based on information by the Dutch, Belgian, German and French intelligence services.

Iran has been on the market, trying to get parts for a nuclear missile that has enough range to reach Europe.
And almost every week you hear the words "Iran" and "Nuclear" in the same sentence. Even on fox

So i'm a little bit cautious. I wouldn't want to miss the moment between the missile has been launched and when it hits...
That small period of time will be humpfest armageddon

You'll see the quickest setup of a festival ever

Anyway, as you see... The Iran thing is pretty serious. But you always have to laugh with it.
I'm seriously living by the words of Bill Hicks "it's all just a ride".

Jesus was a standup comedian. But the guy writing down the jokes, had no sense of humor

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:54 pm

So now we're going to attack Iran?

oh boy

I hope we can get out all the conspiracy stuff OUT now BEFORE anything happens because once we attack it's open game

i.e.

"Well I read an article that George Bushs grandson slept with the prime ministers girlfriend and he told her they were going to bomb on September 8th. but since she was already in bad standing due to a poker debt she couldn't say anything to the intelligence agency (typical) When the CIA found out about it and presented this information to Ronald McDonald (The head of FEMA a the time) THEY DID NOTHING ! Which further proves my point I have not fucking clue of what I'm talking about, wait, do you?"

or

"Well, I read that same article and what it really said was, George Bush's Niece is a lesbian who made a film with the French consolates grand daughter, that tape was leaked to the CIA WHO DID NOTHING AT THE TIME. Not until after the attacks of September 8th was the DVD sold to MaxX Hardcore who promptly put the DVD up on it's website, but later mysteriously taken down due to the anti semitic dildo flashed at the end!"

oh boy - Iraq, Iran, Ipod and Iriver - what's this world coming to - I'm moving to Ibiza

Later

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hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:57 pm

Why is 9/11 such a big deal? Because it has become the excuse for everything.

The former president got impeached for getting a blowjob. The one after that is literally giving satan a blowjob.

"In god we trust"

If you believe in god, you automatically accept that there is a satan.

People may be reaching far, but one day somebody will reach and grab one of those suckers by the neck.
Conspiracy theory's are needed. You just got too find the one that has the right amount of thruthiness (it's a word).

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:59 pm

well, I dont know what articles you read, but go to the national archives...

There you'll find the proof that Georgie boy's grandpa was indicted on over 30 counts of trading with the enemy in 1942...

Oh, in case you didnt know, the enemy then was Nazi Germany.

Sound like a conspiracy? well it was, and he got tried and convicted for it.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:22 pm

FireForEffect wrote:Wars COST money my friend not make money.

They cost the taxpayer (you) money.
The weapons industry is very big business.
They have a powerful lobby in Washington, are major campaign contributors and, from a business point of view, would not benefit from world peace.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:33 pm

Kyle: What are you doing?

Cartman: Hand over the gold!

Kyle: What gold??

Cartman: You know what I'm talkng about!

Kyle: No, Cartman, I have no idea what you're talking about!

Cartman: All Jews carry gold in a little bag around their necks! Hand it over!

Stan: [drops down a few steps and calls] Guys, come on! [goes back up the stairs]

Kyle: Jews do NOT carry gold in a little bag around their necks.Cartman! Stop playing around!

Cartman: [pulls out a 9 mm handgun, hopefully fake.] I'm not playing around, Kyle! If we survive this, I don't intend to live in poverty! Give me your Jew gold now!

Kyle: Dude, we don't have time for your stupid jokes! We're gonna die!
Cartman: Yes, but you can live if you give me your Jew gold! The decision is yours, Kyle!

Kyle: Goddamnit, you know I don't carry gold in a little bag around my neck, Cartman! Whattaya want from me?!

Cartman: I want... your Jew gold! [Kyle has run out of things to say and stands there. Cartman glowers at him, ready to fire the gun if he moves]
Kyle: ...Okay, fine! Here! [opens his coat and pulls out a small black bag, and hands it to Cartman] Now let's go!

Cartman: [moves the bag around for heaviness] Do you think I'm stupid?! I know that all Jews carry fake bags of gold around their necks to keep the real bags of gold around their necks safe! Hand over the real Jew gold, Kyle!! [Kyle, angered at this delaying tactic, pulls out another small bag from under his coat and walks over to Cartman. Cartman laughs evilly as Kyle approaches. Kyle smiles an evil smile back and tosses the second bag over his shoulder and into the fire below. Cartman rushes over to grab it, but doesn't get there in time Kyle rushes up the stairs at the other end of the landing] No! Noooooo! [watches the fire]

ok this is better an official transcript

enjoy!

Loosely interpreted from the Hit Comedy show on Comedy Central South Park - taken from the hilarious episode 908 TWO DAYS BEFORE THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW

Funny funny stuff - seriously guys...

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