All this about sound quality

[nathannn]

And once again, if you want to know why the answers are all different, and why human ears alone can never test objectively, the answers are here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wj ... AAAAAAABAA

Having to keep posting that is getting old.

people have seen this, no where in the video does he do a test comparing two daws. he compared soundcards but never daws.
the test that needs to be done is the one i have mentioned through out this thread.
the only reason i think such a test should be done is that its completely unbiased and that it will show that no one will hear a difference.

You're missing the entire point of why the video is relevant.

It's relevant because it's a case of professionals—scientists—in the fields of acoustics, audiology, and audio engineering who are saying that "what your ears tell you" has no objective basis. Therefore the people who are saying "I'm going with my ear" and concluding that Live somehow inherently produces inferior audio have no credibility in any kind of empirical or objective sense. They're fully entitled to their opinions, but that's all they are, opinions—based on data gathered with scientifically unreliable equipment (ears).

yeah thats understandable and they did test to debunk myths only for certain topics. they did not debunk any myth about two daws sounding different. so there is still one last test to be done.

[Tone Deft]

^ what if they have science™ degrees?

then they're probably assholes.



nathannnnnnn - Tarekith's test showed that Live and Logic, with what he did are nearly the same, except for the last three bits. this doesn't say that Live is imperfect by that margin, that would imply that Logic is the benchmark for perfection. it shows that both applications are pretty damn similar. if you were to just listen the difference between the two you'd have to use a very loud sound system to raise the signal loud enough to hear it. even then, that level of difference would be removed by truncating the bits to 16 bit CD quality, dithering, or numerous other post production processes.

I do think there's meat in the conversation about how DAWs do numerous operations and how the user can screw things up but if what you're doing is screwing things up, don't do that. if you can't get Live to sound good, stop using it.

mostly I hate it when people insist on what other people use. stfu and live your own life. I don't care if someone doesn't like my DAW, there's nothing in the universe that you can't find someone who hates it. ice cream, beer, boobies, sunshine, you name it.



the whole crowd of "it sounds like shit but I won't explain it" reminds me of religious fanatics. they can't prove there's a god but someone in authority tells them there is and they'll rant, scream, kill and blow people up to prove it, generally making the world a worse place.

Ableton - for the love of god please release Live 9 so people will have something new to talk about!!

[H20nly]

So do it then. Seriously. Everyone keeps waiting for someone else do do it, if you know what should be done step up and be the one.

err... uhmm... i have a real busy schedule.
mostly science.
i'm going to a friend's house who uses Pro Tools and he's going to tell me why Live sounds worse.
he's mixed like 43.5 tracks so he's pretty much a pro.
he's got waves bundles and shit.
then i'm headed over to the train station because there's this guy who asked me to meet up with him so he could kick me in the nuts.
yeah, it sounds gay. you're right.
maybe i'll go to my buddy's house who uses logic and is in like 4 bands instead.
he's a pro. big time.
he made like 300 bucks last friday at the bar.
after i gather all the facts i'll report them here and pretend it matters.

ffs im the one saying there is no difference.
maybe you guys are pissy because im feeding what you consider to be trolling, but even though the guy is obviously 3phase he brought up something that no one has tried.
he and a few others claim that live sounds worse with the more recorded and vsti tracks you add. ableton did a test adding tracks but the audio source was only sine and triangle waves and done within live, they never compared daws. this 11 year bitch is always "live sounds worse than daw x" well in order to debunk that myth you need to test it. you cant just add sine waves, see that they null all within the daw that is in question.
im just pointing out the most obvious method to debunk a myth.
i could do a test myself but i would have to use two soundcards that are not the same, so if there was even a little difference it could be blamed on the soundcard.
im not saying we need to feed every troll but if many people are making the same claim you cant write them off as trolls until proper testing is done. i know everyone here loves live like it is human but it is software at least try to be unbiased until there is real testing.

i don't doubt your intentions, but the tests have been performed. Tarekith posted the results and others have tried to debunk the myth and in the end it's always the same... well so and so is Pro and his ears say that Live sounds different... is about all the science™ being offered up. since the tests that have been performed are ignored then what's left? "trust your ears" and now "clean your ears". all the personal attacks and curse words in the world won't change that, neither will lashing out at someone's Mastering business. proof will. so please, somebody, anybody, prove that Live sounds different. we're all ears.

[nathannn]

i don't doubt your intentions, but the tests have been performed. Tarekith posted the results and others have tried to debunk the myth and in the end it's always the same... well so and so is Pro and his ears say that Live sounds different... is about all the science™ being offered up. since the tests that have been performed are ignored then what's left? "trust your ears" and now "clean your ears". all the personal attacks and curse words in the world won't change that. proof will. so please, somebody, anybody, prove that Live sounds different. we're all ears.

this is exactlly what i have been saying. every time any of us ask for real proof that live sounds different no one will post one example of it sounding different. it was like they seemed to think there was no simple method using real audio to test two daws. so i gave them a method. its the most simple and stupidly obvous method.
record into two daws at the same time
use the same settings, plug ins ect in each daw.
post the damn example.
the reason they are saying tarekiths example is not valid is because 1.it is not a "real world" example 2. it does not have a high track count.
so now i am giving people a real simple option (and the only unbiased option) to test two daws and until there are results
that we all can see the bitching should end on both sides.

[Sibanger]

the whole crowd of "it sounds like shit but I won't explain it" reminds me of religious fanatics. they can't prove there's a god but someone in authority tells them there is and they'll rant, scream, kill and blow people up to prove it, generally making the world a worse place.

Ableton - for the love of god please release Live 9 so people will have something new to talk about!!

[Tone Deft]

Tarekith posted the results

The results were that they weren't the same.

did you do that test we talked about yesterday? mix one song into another at the level the difference is? actually I suggested to mix it in much louder than the difference.

[H20nly]

the whole crowd of "it sounds like shit but I won't explain it" reminds me of religious fanatics. they can't prove there's a god but someone in authority tells them there is and they'll rant, scream, kill and blow people up to prove it, generally making the world a worse place.

Ableton - for the love of god please release Live 9 so people will have something new to talk about!!

he got you Tone!

[stringtapper]

You're missing the entire point of why the video is relevant.

It's relevant because it's a case of professionals—scientists—in the fields of acoustics, audiology, and audio engineering who are saying that "what your ears tell you" has no objective basis. Therefore the people who are saying "I'm going with my ear" and concluding that Live somehow inherently produces inferior audio have no credibility in any kind of empirical or objective sense. They're fully entitled to their opinions, but that's all they are, opinions—based on data gathered with scientifically unreliable equipment (ears).

yeah thats understandable and they did test to debunk myths only for certain topics. they did not debunk any myth about two daws sounding different. so there is still one last test to be done.

You're still not comprehending the point.

One more time. It doesn't matter what the specific test is, the point that the video makes is that human hearing alone is not a subjective measure that can be reliably used in any credible test of audio.

.

[stringtapper]

If my brain—influenced by countless non-audio related stimuli and its own ability to "steer" itself—is telling me I hear it, I hear it.

Agreed.

[Tone Deft]

levimoniz - with the grasp you have on audio I don't think you should go around giving definitive qualifications of anything audio related.

"But you can't say prove it or stfu."
that's the limitations YOU have with audio, no I would not expect you to be able to conduct any kind of audio test.

keep learning and good luck!




IMO hearing is the worst of our sense. you can see, taste, touch and smell things much more accurately than hearing. that's why perceptual encoders can get such high performance, there are many ways to take out info the ear can't hear.

[stringtapper]

Not being bothered by the fact that you're willing to make real world decisions based on the audio equivalent of seeing the Virgin Mary in a piece of toast strikes me as odd, but hey who am I to judge?

[Tone Deft]

yeah, but it feels so good!

there's nothing like hearing a great recording on a killer sound system. it can also suck because you can never go back. "oh, so Bose doesn't sound so good..."

[crumhorn]

Two people are in a room, a bird chirps outside. One person says he heard it, the other says he didn't hear anything.

Who is wrong?

they are both right

[simmerdown]

^^ very astute crumhorn, +1

normally i would bump this silly thread all evening, tonight i am going to make some music

[Tone Deft]

Two people are in a room, a bird chirps outside. One person says he heard it, the other says he didn't hear anything.

Who is wrong?

TELL THAT BIRD TO SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

I guess I take it as a "because I said so" kind of statement which I don't really think has to be the case. but people do say that, that's how it is, so I'll live with it. just don't come into my home and start that shit and I won't do it in yours.

I do love audio and I do love picking it apart. Live is the only DAW I own so I can't do any A/B tests.