LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

[sdfak1234]

This would be really funny, and make a little bit of sense of we actually wanted it now.

The reality is that we wanted it a long time ago.. and some would argue this is a need, not a want. So replace "I want it now" with "I needed it 5 years ago".

how about you got your answer 5 years ago and an update last week? henke's been quoted as saying they made a conscious decision years ago to not go that route.

totally wrong time for your rant-fest. think about it. they just released a new version, this is the WORST time for feature requests, not to mention the wrong forum, not to mention that they've disavowed the forum from their site. their engineers are either taking vacation or wholly fixed on bugs, new features? no way.

they've known that users want this, they've put ZERO effort into putting it into the software. Live will not have PDC, end of story, game over.

but you are right that Ableton don't care at all.

[beatmunga]

Now is the perfect time to rant about it, seeing as how Tone Deft would not allow any ranting before - so smug was he that it would be fixed in Live 9.

It hasn't. Tone Deft was wrong. So the ranting starts again.

Time to face up to things, Tone. How long will this pathetic charade of yours continue?

[Tone Deft]

I believe the reason why it hasn't been fixed is because there is low awareness of understanding of the ramifications of the issues and now that we know it hasn't be implemented in the long awaited version 9.

no, henke posted about it a while back, petite-whatever-his face has been dragging this around like a dog with a new bone for years, he's quite proud of this.

it's a low awareness of not doing stupid shit with your DAW. it's not a problem for me, I'm glad I know about it and can use Live more intelligently.

good luck with you anger!

[sdfak1234]

it's a low awareness of not doing stupid shit with your DAW. it's not a problem for me, I'm glad I know about it and can use Live more intelligently.

Adding a plugin is doing stupid shit with your DAW?.. glad its not a problem for you anyway... but are you sure you're using Live more intelligently?.

[Tone Deft]

it's a low awareness of not doing stupid shit with your DAW. it's not a problem for me, I'm glad I know about it and can use Live more intelligently.

Adding a plugin is doing stupid shit with your DAW?.. glad its not a problem for you anyway... but are you sure you're using Live more intelligently?.

warp can sound awful if you use it wrong. your mix can sound flacid if your gain structure is done poorly. compressors can suck the life out of a tune if used wrong.

we had some good discussions last week, some great ideas on how this could maybe be implemented, users thinking that Live could have two modes, live and production. we're kinda spinning our wheels with this, the horse is dead.

good luck, it benefits us all. try making some noise on Ableton's Answers page

https://www.ableton.com/answers/

[sdfak1234]

it's a low awareness of not doing stupid shit with your DAW. it's not a problem for me, I'm glad I know about it and can use Live more intelligently.

Adding a plugin is doing stupid shit with your DAW?.. glad its not a problem for you anyway... but are you sure you're using Live more intelligently?.

warp can sound awful if you use it wrong. your mix can sound flacid if your gain structure is done poorly. compressors can suck the life out of a tune if used wrong.

we had some good discussions last week, some great ideas on how this could maybe be implemented, users thinking that Live could have two modes, live and production. we're kinda spinning our wheels with this, the horse is dead.

good luck, it benefits us all. try making some noise on Ableton's Answers page

https://www.ableton.com/answers/

Well I've already made it clear that I think talk of a live and producer mode is redundant for fixing how automation is compensated, I do not understand how this modes thing has any ramification on PDC automation, maybe someone could explain this to me? to me it's just a case of compensating the written automation.. why a producer mode???

I've told you before Tone, I'm just waiting for that official confirmation, once I see Ableton with no automation PDC that's it, finished... and any lame defense of Ableton will be addressed.

[Tone Deft]

PDC increases audio latency. Live is a live tool and a production tool, from time to time there's a rub in being everything to everyone. some features benefit DJs, some benefit Producers, sometimes there's a tradeoff.

have a switch that gives live performers low latency by removing PDC, or Producers can enable PDC to get tighter timing. at that point Live could even pause for a minute while it goes over the song to analyze the delays and compensate accordingly. I suggested that now that our computers can get great low latency even at 48kHz and maybe this notion of the latency induced by PDC isn't am issue. with Live 5 I'd put Live into 192kHz mode if I wanted to play it real time with low latency.

still, there's the problem of third party plug-ins reporting the wrong latency. that will always be possible.

they did 64 bit summing because other DAWs have it, it wasn't a great leap in sound quality. if other DAWs have PDC then maybe they'll put it in there even if they're not convinced it's really needed.

[sdfak1234]

PDC increases audio latency. Live is a live tool and a production tool, from time to time there's a rub in being everything to everyone. some features benefit DJs, some benefit Producers, sometimes there's a tradeoff.

have a switch that gives live performers low latency by removing PDC, or Producers can enable PDC to get tighter timing. at that point Live could even pause for a minute while it goes over the song to analyze the delays and compensate accordingly. I suggested that now that our computers can get great low latency even at 48kHz and maybe this notion of the latency induced by PDC isn't am issue. with Live 5 I'd put Live into 192kHz mode if I wanted to play it real time with low latency.

still, there's the problem of third party plug-ins reporting the wrong latency. that will always be possible.

they did 64 bit summing because other DAWs have it, it wasn't a great leap in sound quality. if other DAWs have PDC then maybe they'll put it in there even if they're not convinced it's really needed.

Once again, same confusion over PDC on audio and PDC on automation... a mode for tighter timing I understand, but we want PDC on automation to do is compensate whether it's low latency or not... there is no need for a producer mode for this, either it's tight compensation or it's not... either way, compensated automation. People seem to have gotten off on this producer/dj mode for latency issues, but low or high latency it doesn't matter, the automation should match the plugins - regardless of what 'mode' you're in....

Also people keep on saying that third party plugins can report invalid latency, so what? if they report invalid latency they will be compensated invalid, it's better than no automation compensation at all, for all plugins.

[Tone Deft]

true. good weekends make for rough Mondays.

you're a good egg.

lunch.

[Cool Character]

My favorite company has a serious problem that they've known about for years, and have yet to address the issue.

I know! I'll blame the people complaining about it.

[MrFingerDrums]

you can hear that Ableton has sloppy timing when automating i am no scientist but you can hear it

[Tone Deft]

My favorite company has a serious problem that they've known about for years, and have yet to address the issue.

I know! I'll blame the people complaining about it.

being an asshole does nothing to help the cause. if anything you're pushing Ableton developers away from this thread.

[RD444]

My favorite company has a serious problem that they've known about for years, and have yet to address the issue.

I know! I'll blame the people complaining about it.

being an asshole does nothing to help the cause. if anything you're pushing Ableton developers away from this thread.

Ableton don't give a Crap about fixing pdc.

One-day something will force them.

Probably not bigwig.

Someone start a kvr thread with sensible poll and some YouTube clips of the problems. That may encourage change before live 9's release .

That's about it

[merges]

I don't think they were ever here…

[Tone Deft]

I don't think they were ever here…

I think they're gonna be here, in a big way with loads of moderation. they're already doing damage control from the forum by hiding it. they're a publicly held company and I'm sure the board would rather make money than enable the freedom of speech that's gone on here for years.