Ableton Forum

this is a close second

and reminiscent of the old forum days

"Korea is to cats & dogs what Hitler was to Jews! Cat soup is the preferred way to eat cat meat !" WARNING: NOT eating cat leads to hyperbole!
The Koreans call their favorite cat dish "Goyangi-tan" - or "Liquid Cat." Fire up the blender - sounds tasty.

cat milk?

EDIT: WAaaaaaaaaait a minute, it's only page 3 and we're already on to pureed cat

You don't drink cat milk in Australia?

That would be a cat smoothie

Emissary wrote:

OvertoneZero wrote:Emissary: Reality for US election 2008 is that no independent candidate is a contender

whats your point. so if you could either vote for rapist A or rapist B you would still vote for one. Personally if i was an american i would vote independent so at least in 30 years time i could tell my kids or grandkids , "i never voted for either of those 2 shits"

voting for the lesser of two evils is one of the worst things imaginable. It shows you actually have knowledge that something is not right but lack the bravery to stand up. I hope you do stand up and take account for the destruction that has been spread throughout the world in your name. Many people despise america, but not because you are free, or rich, or christian, but because your administration murders millions of innocents every year without remorse.

Emissary, you and deva oversimplify issues to a dangerous point and argue points that no one is arguing.

Not everyone voting believes they are voting for the lessor of two evils. Some people love Bush, love his policies and support all the destruction that has been perpetrated. The reason for this is that not everyone agrees with each other... this is a simple concept that you should come to terms with especially if you want real change instead of just being one more complainer.

Yes we have people in the country dumb enough to believe people hate the US because of our "freedom" instead of hating us for our policies... but there are dumb people in every country including the ones who think everyone here is like this.

All I'm saying is that change doesn't come easy. In order to change things on the scale that needs to be done, you need the support of the masses, and this unfortunately only happens one step at a time because there is so much that needs change, world wide.

Your argument for voting for independents sounds good as a principle, but the reality is that there is one major organized front and that has been the religious right takeover of the republican party. So yes, people could decide to vote independents and allow the crazy nut-cases to win another election, which would only further the policies that the rest of world hates us for, or we could unite behind one candidate to defeat them and force them to restructure their party without the crazy nut cases, which appears would be the case if Obama wins.

I can already tell you I rather defeat what's wrong then claim stubbornly to principles that don't affect or create change.

Tiger juice

OvertoneZero wrote:Tiger juice

I'll take a case, please.

elxicano wrote:

Emissary wrote:

OvertoneZero wrote:Emissary: Reality for US election 2008 is that no independent candidate is a contender

whats your point. so if you could either vote for rapist A or rapist B you would still vote for one. Personally if i was an american i would vote independent so at least in 30 years time i could tell my kids or grandkids , "i never voted for either of those 2 shits"

voting for the lesser of two evils is one of the worst things imaginable. It shows you actually have knowledge that something is not right but lack the bravery to stand up. I hope you do stand up and take account for the destruction that has been spread throughout the world in your name. Many people despise america, but not because you are free, or rich, or christian, but because your administration murders millions of innocents every year without remorse.

Emissary, you and deva oversimplify issues to a dangerous point and argue points that no one is arguing.

Not everyone voting believes they are voting for the lessor of two evils. Some people love Bush, love his policies and support all the destruction that has been perpetrated. The reason for this is that not everyone agrees with each other... this is a simple concept that you should come to terms with especially if you want real change instead of just being one more complainer.

Yes we have people in the country dumb enough to believe people hate the US because of our "freedom" instead of hating us for our policies... but there are dumb people in every country including the ones who think everyone here is like this.

All I'm saying is that change doesn't come easy. In order to change things on the scale that needs to be done, you need the support of the masses, and this unfortunately only happens one step at a time because there is so much that needs change, world wide.

Your argument for voting for independents sounds good as a principle, but the reality is that there is one major organized front and that has been the religious right takeover of the republican party. So yes, people could decide to vote independents and allow the crazy nut-cases to win another election, which would only further the policies that the rest of world hates us for, or we could unite behind one candidate to defeat them and force them to restructure their party without the crazy nut cases, which appears would be the case if Obama wins.

I can already tell you I rather defeat what's wrong then claim stubbornly to principles that don't affect or create change.

fair enough, if you believe what your doing is right then i have no right in talking to you the way i did. Just personally i would rather cling stubbornly to principles that have no effect than defeat what i perceive to be wrong by voting for someone who is 1% less bad. Perhaps the crazy nut jobs getting into power and bringing the country to its knees is exactly what america needs. I think Americans have such a short history that they are perceived by the rest of the world as children who haven't learnt from the eons of history the rest of us have been through. Maybe you need to look at yourselves and just say No. If each of you did that, the world would be a safer place and your country would once again take its place as the promised land of freedom.
but anyway having grown up making decision that i feel in my heart are correct even if they had no perceivable effect on anything i guess we just feel differently about things. Hope i didn't offend you with any of my statements. I can never work out if i am an idealist or a pessimist

Emissary wrote:

elxicano wrote:

Emissary wrote: whats your point. so if you could either vote for rapist A or rapist B you would still vote for one. Personally if i was an american i would vote independent so at least in 30 years time i could tell my kids or grandkids , "i never voted for either of those 2 shits"

voting for the lesser of two evils is one of the worst things imaginable. It shows you actually have knowledge that something is not right but lack the bravery to stand up. I hope you do stand up and take account for the destruction that has been spread throughout the world in your name. Many people despise america, but not because you are free, or rich, or christian, but because your administration murders millions of innocents every year without remorse.

Emissary, you and deva oversimplify issues to a dangerous point and argue points that no one is arguing.

Not everyone voting believes they are voting for the lessor of two evils. Some people love Bush, love his policies and support all the destruction that has been perpetrated. The reason for this is that not everyone agrees with each other... this is a simple concept that you should come to terms with especially if you want real change instead of just being one more complainer.

Yes we have people in the country dumb enough to believe people hate the US because of our "freedom" instead of hating us for our policies... but there are dumb people in every country including the ones who think everyone here is like this.

All I'm saying is that change doesn't come easy. In order to change things on the scale that needs to be done, you need the support of the masses, and this unfortunately only happens one step at a time because there is so much that needs change, world wide.

Your argument for voting for independents sounds good as a principle, but the reality is that there is one major organized front and that has been the religious right takeover of the republican party. So yes, people could decide to vote independents and allow the crazy nut-cases to win another election, which would only further the policies that the rest of world hates us for, or we could unite behind one candidate to defeat them and force them to restructure their party without the crazy nut cases, which appears would be the case if Obama wins.

I can already tell you I rather defeat what's wrong then claim stubbornly to principles that don't affect or create change.

fair enough, if you believe what your doing is right then i have no right in talking to you the way i did. Just personally i would rather cling stubbornly to principles that have no effect than defeat what i perceive to be wrong by voting for someone who is 1% less bad. Perhaps the crazy nut jobs getting into power and bringing the country to its knees is exactly what america needs. I think Americans have such a short history that they are perceived by the rest of the world as children who haven't learnt from the eons of history the rest of us have been through. Maybe you need to look at yourselves and just say No. If each of you did that, the world would be a safer place and your country would once again take its place as the promised land of freedom.
but anyway having grown up making decision that i feel in my heart are correct even if they had no perceivable effect on anything i guess we just feel differently about things. Hope i didn't offend you with any of my statements. I can never work out if i am an idealist or a pessimist

Funny thing is, those who are prepared to compromise a bit about what is right are wrong aren't the ones who end up bombing people who don't agree with them.

Emissary wrote:

elxicano wrote:

Emissary wrote: whats your point. so if you could either vote for rapist A or rapist B you would still vote for one. Personally if i was an american i would vote independent so at least in 30 years time i could tell my kids or grandkids , "i never voted for either of those 2 shits"

voting for the lesser of two evils is one of the worst things imaginable. It shows you actually have knowledge that something is not right but lack the bravery to stand up. I hope you do stand up and take account for the destruction that has been spread throughout the world in your name. Many people despise america, but not because you are free, or rich, or christian, but because your administration murders millions of innocents every year without remorse.

Emissary, you and deva oversimplify issues to a dangerous point and argue points that no one is arguing.

Not everyone voting believes they are voting for the lessor of two evils. Some people love Bush, love his policies and support all the destruction that has been perpetrated. The reason for this is that not everyone agrees with each other... this is a simple concept that you should come to terms with especially if you want real change instead of just being one more complainer.

Yes we have people in the country dumb enough to believe people hate the US because of our "freedom" instead of hating us for our policies... but there are dumb people in every country including the ones who think everyone here is like this.

All I'm saying is that change doesn't come easy. In order to change things on the scale that needs to be done, you need the support of the masses, and this unfortunately only happens one step at a time because there is so much that needs change, world wide.

Your argument for voting for independents sounds good as a principle, but the reality is that there is one major organized front and that has been the religious right takeover of the republican party. So yes, people could decide to vote independents and allow the crazy nut-cases to win another election, which would only further the policies that the rest of world hates us for, or we could unite behind one candidate to defeat them and force them to restructure their party without the crazy nut cases, which appears would be the case if Obama wins.

I can already tell you I rather defeat what's wrong then claim stubbornly to principles that don't affect or create change.

fair enough, if you believe what your doing is right then i have no right in talking to you the way i did. Just personally i would rather cling stubbornly to principles that have no effect than defeat what i perceive to be wrong by voting for someone who is 1% less bad. Perhaps the crazy nut jobs getting into power and bringing the country to its knees is exactly what america needs. I think Americans have such a short history that they are perceived by the rest of the world as children who haven't learnt from the eons of history the rest of us have been through. Maybe you need to look at yourselves and just say No. If each of you did that, the world would be a safer place and your country would once again take its place as the promised land of freedom.
but anyway having grown up making decision that i feel in my heart are correct even if they had no perceivable effect on anything i guess we just feel differently about things. Hope i didn't offend you with any of my statements. I can never work out if i am an idealist or a pessimist

Funny thing is, those who are prepared to compromise a bit about what they think is right or wrong aren't the ones who end up bombing people who don't agree with them.

sparklepuff wrote:Shit, Crazy Tracy was pulled from YouTube. Here's the original, that crazy bitch shows up 8:00 in.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/441/video-seg2.html

10:00 in she starts in on her rant.


82 days
9 hours
23 minutes
3 seconds

finally someone in office who speaks proper english, will address the press and not be a total ass in general, by that I mean EITHER and ANY candidate. no more Cheney either.

sparklepuff wrote:Shit, Crazy Tracy was pulled from YouTube. Here's the original, that crazy bitch shows up 8:00 in.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/441/video-seg2.html

Man! I'm so sick of these crazy, prejudiced rednecks calling themselves Christians. It's laughable that these people use God and Jesus to justify their closed minded-ness.

Jesus didn't hang out with the HOLY, he hung out with the riff-raff. He hung out with "sinners".

Anyway...sorry for the rabbit-trail.

P.S. - you can get your flame on now, I'm still voting for McCain....just a little embarrassed at some of the people that are voting the way I will.

Emissary wrote:

elxicano wrote:

Emissary wrote: whats your point. so if you could either vote for rapist A or rapist B you would still vote for one. Personally if i was an american i would vote independent so at least in 30 years time i could tell my kids or grandkids , "i never voted for either of those 2 shits"

voting for the lesser of two evils is one of the worst things imaginable. It shows you actually have knowledge that something is not right but lack the bravery to stand up. I hope you do stand up and take account for the destruction that has been spread throughout the world in your name. Many people despise america, but not because you are free, or rich, or christian, but because your administration murders millions of innocents every year without remorse.

Emissary, you and deva oversimplify issues to a dangerous point and argue points that no one is arguing.

Not everyone voting believes they are voting for the lessor of two evils. Some people love Bush, love his policies and support all the destruction that has been perpetrated. The reason for this is that not everyone agrees with each other... this is a simple concept that you should come to terms with especially if you want real change instead of just being one more complainer.

Yes we have people in the country dumb enough to believe people hate the US because of our "freedom" instead of hating us for our policies... but there are dumb people in every country including the ones who think everyone here is like this.

All I'm saying is that change doesn't come easy. In order to change things on the scale that needs to be done, you need the support of the masses, and this unfortunately only happens one step at a time because there is so much that needs change, world wide.

Your argument for voting for independents sounds good as a principle, but the reality is that there is one major organized front and that has been the religious right takeover of the republican party. So yes, people could decide to vote independents and allow the crazy nut-cases to win another election, which would only further the policies that the rest of world hates us for, or we could unite behind one candidate to defeat them and force them to restructure their party without the crazy nut cases, which appears would be the case if Obama wins.

I can already tell you I rather defeat what's wrong then claim stubbornly to principles that don't affect or create change.

fair enough, if you believe what your doing is right then i have no right in talking to you the way i did. Just personally i would rather cling stubbornly to principles that have no effect than defeat what i perceive to be wrong by voting for someone who is 1% less bad. Perhaps the crazy nut jobs getting into power and bringing the country to its knees is exactly what america needs. I think Americans have such a short history that they are perceived by the rest of the world as children who haven't learnt from the eons of history the rest of us have been through. Maybe you need to look at yourselves and just say No. If each of you did that, the world would be a safer place and your country would once again take its place as the promised land of freedom.
but anyway having grown up making decision that i feel in my heart are correct even if they had no perceivable effect on anything i guess we just feel differently about things. Hope i didn't offend you with any of my statements. I can never work out if i am an idealist or a pessimist

Look, I'm not offended and i do understand your position.

I do accept the points we disagree on, and respect your view on "clinging" to principles... and I should add that using the word "cling" is a bit harsh since I do see some good in that.

My biggest disagreement with you is based on the overgeneralization of a population. There are many people here who think just like you do. What worries me is that those who think like you describe them will feel justified in their beliefs because it isolates them from the rest of the world, which in IMO is exactly the problem which needs to be corrected. Its the long lasting lack of education or lack of exposure to the rest of the world that allows so much of foreign policy to go unchecked and unquestioned by the people.

Another thing is that I don't believe this country will fall on its knees based on who's in power, but I can say things will be miserable for many around the world based on our policies from a dominant minority. We are far from the days of major collapses of government because the way this system is designed, it will remain structurally strong despite who is running it. Wishing or expecting this to happen is unrealistic at best.

Preventing more harm than what's already been caused I believe is a responsibility of those who are smart enough to know how wrong some things are and even more so when knowing how much more wrong things could be.

Furthermore it makes more sense watching the collapse of a political party as is the possibility with this election, than thinking the collapse of a nation is a form of success.

If the goal is change and there is a chance of achieving it peacefully, than why should we not seize that moment?

forge wrote:

ethios4 wrote:Watching the poll numbers is killing me.

why? what is it looking like there?

I'm always checking in at realclearpolitics Their averaging of national polls has been slowly sinking for Obama from 8.2 ahead to 5.9 over the past week or so. But he's still kicking ass in the electoral system...waaay ahead. I'm just nervous of "underdog" McCain, even though he'll have to have an incredible turnaround to make it. Every time I check the news I'm expecting something bad.

elxicano wrote:

Emissary wrote:

elxicano wrote: Emissary, you and deva oversimplify issues to a dangerous point and argue points that no one is arguing.

Not everyone voting believes they are voting for the lessor of two evils. Some people love Bush, love his policies and support all the destruction that has been perpetrated. The reason for this is that not everyone agrees with each other... this is a simple concept that you should come to terms with especially if you want real change instead of just being one more complainer.

Yes we have people in the country dumb enough to believe people hate the US because of our "freedom" instead of hating us for our policies... but there are dumb people in every country including the ones who think everyone here is like this.

All I'm saying is that change doesn't come easy. In order to change things on the scale that needs to be done, you need the support of the masses, and this unfortunately only happens one step at a time because there is so much that needs change, world wide.

Your argument for voting for independents sounds good as a principle, but the reality is that there is one major organized front and that has been the religious right takeover of the republican party. So yes, people could decide to vote independents and allow the crazy nut-cases to win another election, which would only further the policies that the rest of world hates us for, or we could unite behind one candidate to defeat them and force them to restructure their party without the crazy nut cases, which appears would be the case if Obama wins.

I can already tell you I rather defeat what's wrong then claim stubbornly to principles that don't affect or create change.

fair enough, if you believe what your doing is right then i have no right in talking to you the way i did. Just personally i would rather cling stubbornly to principles that have no effect than defeat what i perceive to be wrong by voting for someone who is 1% less bad. Perhaps the crazy nut jobs getting into power and bringing the country to its knees is exactly what america needs. I think Americans have such a short history that they are perceived by the rest of the world as children who haven't learnt from the eons of history the rest of us have been through. Maybe you need to look at yourselves and just say No. If each of you did that, the world would be a safer place and your country would once again take its place as the promised land of freedom.
but anyway having grown up making decision that i feel in my heart are correct even if they had no perceivable effect on anything i guess we just feel differently about things. Hope i didn't offend you with any of my statements. I can never work out if i am an idealist or a pessimist

Look, I'm not offended and i do understand your position.

I do accept the points we disagree on, and respect your view on "clinging" to principles... and I should add that using the word "cling" is a bit harsh since I do see some good in that.

My biggest disagreement with you is based on the overgeneralization of a population. There are many people here who think just like you do. What worries me is that those who think like you describe them will feel justified in their beliefs because it isolates them from the rest of the world, which in IMO is exactly the problem which needs to be corrected. Its the long lasting lack of education or lack of exposure to the rest of the world that allows so much of foreign policy to go unchecked and unquestioned by the people.

Another thing is that I don't believe this country will fall on its knees based on who's in power, but I can say things will be miserable for many around the world based on our policies from a dominant minority. We are far from the days of major collapses of government because the way this system is designed, it will remain structurally strong despite who is running it. Wishing or expecting this to happen is unrealistic at best.

Preventing more harm than what's already been caused I believe is a responsibility of those who are smart enough to know how wrong some things are and even more so when knowing how much more wrong things could be.

Furthermore it makes more sense watching the collapse of a political party as is the possibility with this election, than thinking the collapse of a nation is a form of success.

If the goal is change and there is a chance of achieving it peacefully, than why should we not seize that moment?

I understand your points but would have to disagree with you on some. The problem is that you think obama signifies change when the truth is he has promised none that matters. He is highly charismatic and as far as i can tell quite intelligent. I would personally much rather spend an afternoon in his company than in Mccains but i wouldn't vote for him. When you vote for someone, everything that person does while in power falls directly on your shoulders. If The american army bombs a school, that blood is on your hands, as long as your happy with that then you should continue to reside in the 2 party system.I myself could not deal with voting a government in britain into power knowing that i was effectively signing the death warrants of thousands of innocent lives.

In regards to the infrastructure of the USA, i think it is much more fragile than you or anyone could possibly imagine. Due to this global crisis america is teetering on the brink of depression and then later far more dangerously hyperinflation. If hyperinflation were to take grip of the USA then there would quite probably be mass rioting, mass starvation and a country in total disarray. The problem with America when it comes to it is that all your food is grown far far away from the majority of the population. Your infrastructure for delivering food is privately run and cities are filled with people who have no idea how to grow crops.

When the russian empire collapsed, the russians coped with it surprisingly well as they were still in the communist mind set. The infrastructure kept going as it was all government owned. The people of russia started treating money like tokens and would divide it up between friends and family so everyone could survive, and many people still had land on which to grow crops.

To believe that the USA just couldn't collapse is i am sorry to say arrogance of the highest order. Each generation thinks they are the best there has ever been and that they are far too advanced to be effected by the same cyclical issues that have been effecting the human species for millennia. Sadly America is in the last death. It will rise again most definitely, but not for a long while. as much as it pains and saddens me to say this I Personally think its our turn (america , UK, Europe ) to be the 3rd world. Its time for our families and loved ones to have there legs blown off while the countrys coming into power (china for one) watch on tv while stuffing their faces. Unfortunately we have nothing to offer the world , we have become consumers living of the producers. After global re alignment we just wont have anything to offer the new ruling powers.

I hope none of this shit comes to pass. but i cant see how it wont if you follow things through to their logical conclusions.

Emissary, what you *think* is far from the truth. I don't know how or why people take you seriously.



this is funny... San Francisco's Proposition R. it's to rename the Oceanside Water Pollution Control Plant to the George W. Bush Sewage Plant.
http://www.examiner.com/x-358-SF-City-H ... e-Renaming
(it's the same one they showed on 'Dirty Jobs.'