A Little pre-Christmas story....

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
mikemc
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Post by mikemc » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:06 pm

The argument constructed around this "service" is a very interesting. They are aggregating free content, and providing a pipeline for it and a means to navigate the data, and this is what they say they charge the user for.

From their standpoint, the silly artist is setting this stuff out for free, so why not?

But the whole of the concept of copyrighting, really of the whole notion of an economy, is that one cannot steal the sweat from another's brow and profit from it. Pretty sure US copyright law states that the artifact is "copyrighted" the minute it is produced in "fixed form". Actually registering the work with the copyright office is a way to safeguard the copyright with an authoritative registrar, but the work is copyrighted upon it's conception and capture thereof.

If they successfully defend this legally it is an extremely slippery slope.

Let's explore: Art, in particular, is essentially worthless until some larger consensus attaches value to it. But, this dubious "service" provides that consensus.

Ah, we should be grateful, then. Robert's heretofore worthless offering. set out for free, is now assigned a valuation!

But how does he reap the reward? The industrious aggregator is burdened with their costs, which they undoubtedly barely recoup from their fees, seeing as all the files they must slurp, and only a fraction are sold no doubt: surely they have no pennies to spare him.

But, Robert on the other hand suffers a loss, because the now valued work is being downloaded, doesn't he lose on each download?

Well, then, he should get to write off these losses. He owes less taxes!! Yay, a victory for artists everywhere.

But, accounting-wise, the money is being siphoned off across borders into this extra-national service. If it were all in the same country, the difference in state revenue would be made up by this service paying taxes on their income, which of course we're sure they must do because they are so on the legal up and up,

OK, let's say that tax payment happens. But, to whom are they paying taxes? Russia, I guess. But Robert's tax write off is in Deutschland, ja?

So, in that case, seems like Russia should end up owing Germany some money. Also, to every other country that the "aggregator" ends up slurping up artwork from and selling. How can the nations of the world collect our due from Russia??

so yeh, back to nice bass sounds :)
UTENZIL a tool... of the muse.

Macrostructure
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Post by Macrostructure » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:10 pm

Robert Henke wrote: Ah, lets go back to nicer topics. I made a good bass sound today. Anyone else ?

Robert

Me too as it happens. Not often musicality occurs in my studio, so hurrah!! A really nice bassline. Going to put it in my live set for Thurday night's Laptop Lounge.

Dalibor Loncar
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Post by Dalibor Loncar » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:56 pm

since yesterday i´m a proud owner of live 7 and operator. at the moment i am messing around with operator.

because some stuff should also be free of charge, please feel free to download the sounds for the operator synth i made.

the sound capablities of the operator synth are amazing. that thingie is rad. thanks ableton!

the sounds i made are in an experimental-/electronica-/breaks-/dnb-/jungle-style

download it under http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=53284B4E12

change it, change the tempo, play with it, do what you want ...
Last edited by Dalibor Loncar on Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gjm
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Post by gjm » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:34 pm

At least your stuff is being sold with credit to you. There is the next level of creativity theft where NO CREDIT is given, and the thieves not only steal the results of your creativity, but any chance to trade in reputation. :cry:
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

thelike5
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Post by thelike5 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:40 pm

forge wrote:
Robert Henke wrote: Ah, lets go back to nicer topics. I made a good bass sound today. Anyone else ?
I just took advantage of NI's 50% discount and upgraded FM7 to FM8 for $39!!!! ME--> :D
Damn, $39? That's a good deal.

I found a nice little program called Kreate by Fixed Noise that was cretaed by Speedy J for $169. I think I'll give it a shot!

thelike5
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Post by thelike5 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:47 pm

Keep vinyl alive. Do whatever you can to keep vinyl alive because it's going to be the only shot to make money off of a release in the near future.

Buy it.

Play it out

Comment to everyone you know how much coller the album artwork is and how much better it sounds

Electronic music and DJ'ing altogether is only getting more popular. Continue to talk up vinyl and it may just, one day, save the music industry
(or at least the little part of it we all love and know so well.)

Hidden Driveways
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Post by Hidden Driveways » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:12 pm

Well, I can only hope that at some point I have a product that organized crime takes an interest in.

BACK TO THE HEADPHONES!

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:14 pm

i am with robert, it's awful.

but you see then you have IDIOTS, plain stupid people who write stuff like that:

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=101223

and then they usually wonder why in hell they can't afford a nice studio, or having a day job that sucks.

p.s. just had a guy at work going all crazy on me, because he was like, hey i bring my HD tomorrow and grab some tunes of your HD, ok? and i was like no, i give you the title names of the ones you like and then you can buy them yourself.
i explained him why am i not giving him 'free' tunes but he did not understood, guess because he is not creating music himself...!?!

music needs to be a business, otherwise no one can afford the creation.
Last edited by SubFunk on Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:19 pm

thelike5 wrote:Keep vinyl alive. Do whatever you can to keep vinyl alive because it's going to be the only shot to make money off of a release in the near future.

Buy it.

Play it out

Comment to everyone you know how much coller the album artwork is and how much better it sounds

Electronic music and DJ'ing altogether is only getting more popular. Continue to talk up vinyl and it may just, one day, save the music industry
(or at least the little part of it we all love and know so well.)
wrong! plain and simple wrong!

several labels i know (and personally the owners) that nearly went dead make very good sales again since they go digital.

soulseduction, one of europe's biggest distro went completely down, because they did not went digital.

word and sound, nearly went down, what people play dot com, there digital distro established last minute before there death, saved them.

you don't go digital our days, you die!
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thelike5
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Post by thelike5 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:32 pm

SubFunk wrote:
thelike5 wrote:Keep vinyl alive. Do whatever you can to keep vinyl alive because it's going to be the only shot to make money off of a release in the near future.

Buy it.

Play it out

Comment to everyone you know how much coller the album artwork is and how much better it sounds

Electronic music and DJ'ing altogether is only getting more popular. Continue to talk up vinyl and it may just, one day, save the music industry
(or at least the little part of it we all love and know so well.)
wrong! plain and simple wrong!

several labels i know (and personally the owners) that nearly went dead make very good sales again since they go digital.

soulseduction, one of europe's biggest distro went completely down, because they did not went digital.

word and sound, nearly went down, what people play dot com, there digital distro established last minute before there death, saved them.

you don't go digital our days, you die!
Quit getting so hot and bothered...

Please, enlighten me... a person wants to buy, lets say the new Steve Bug cd.

Give a person two links; one link on the left is to a file sharing site which once said person clicks on it a file will automatically download containing all the tracks from the release (heck, even with the artwork jpg) directly to the users desktop. The other link, to the right, is to Poker Flat, which sells the music for 10 Euros (or 16 or so American dollars.) Which link do you think MOST people will click? Mind you, the current economic climate a lot of us are facing...

I'm willing to bet the number of people into buying vinyl outweigh the number of people who clicked that link to the right.

I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way things are.

8O
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Post by 8O » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:38 pm

thelike5 wrote:I'm willing to bet the number of people into buying vinyl outweigh the number of people who clicked that link to the right.
What are you betting? - http://blog.wired.com/.shared/image.htm ... a_2007.jpg
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SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:41 pm

thelike5 wrote:
SubFunk wrote:
thelike5 wrote:Keep vinyl alive. Do whatever you can to keep vinyl alive because it's going to be the only shot to make money off of a release in the near future.

Buy it.

Play it out

Comment to everyone you know how much coller the album artwork is and how much better it sounds

Electronic music and DJ'ing altogether is only getting more popular. Continue to talk up vinyl and it may just, one day, save the music industry
(or at least the little part of it we all love and know so well.)
wrong! plain and simple wrong!

several labels i know (and personally the owners) that nearly went dead make very good sales again since they go digital.

soulseduction, one of europe's biggest distro went completely down, because they did not went digital.

word and sound, nearly went down, what people play dot com, there digital distro established last minute before there death, saved them.

you don't go digital our days, you die!
Quit getting so hot and bothered...

Please, enlighten me... a person wants to buy, lets say the new Steve Bug mix cd.

Give a person two links; one link on the left is to a file sharing site which once said person clicks on it a file will automatically download containing all the tracks from the release (heck, even with the artwork jpg) directly to the users desktop. The other link, to the right, is to Poker Flat, which sells the music for 10 Euros (or 16 or so American dollars.) Which link do you think MOST people will click? Mind you, the current economic lcimate a lot of us are facing...

I'm willing to bet the number of people into buying vinyl outweigh the number of people who clicked that link to the right.
the overall sell numbers proof different, there are only a very, very few labels left who can do without offering at least both downloads and Hartcopies. (actually for example even Playhouse / Klang / Ongaku THE HARDCORE vinyl freaks had to give way to mp3 promos, that says a lot!, they did not found any support anymore and the pressure grew on them giving promos as mp3s away... cause most DJs just give a damn anymore carrying stupid plastic around)

we are talking vinyl vs. digital formats as SOLD products, not piracy sites / torrents.


comparing free stuff with vinyl is just... well :roll:
Last edited by SubFunk on Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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thelike5
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Post by thelike5 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:43 pm

8O wrote:
thelike5 wrote:I'm willing to bet the number of people into buying vinyl outweigh the number of people who clicked that link to the right.
What are you betting? - http://blog.wired.com/.shared/image.htm ... a_2007.jpg
Nice one... although a whole lot has changed in just the last year. Servers like Rapidshare, File Factory, etc. are light years more popular today then they were this time last year.

Remember, I did say stick both links in front of someone and see what they would do.
Last edited by thelike5 on Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelike5
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Post by thelike5 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:45 pm

My friends record label gives away a download code with each vinyl release they sell... that way a person can download the mp3 and have both.

Seems like a logical move. However we are talking about low hundreds not thousands or millions of units here.

Maybe find a way to give out more merch or at least merch discounts? At this point, what else can the artist/label/sometimes both do?

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:51 pm

thelike5 wrote:My friends record label gives away a download code with each vinyl release they sell... that way a person can download the mp3 and have both.

Seems like a logical move. However we are talking about low hundreds not thousands or millions of units here.

Maybe find a way to give out more merch or at least merch discounts? At this point, what else can the artist/label/sometimes both do?
it's tough for sells in general i agree,
i just said that your original statement is wrong that only with vinyl is money to be made, in the domain of especially electronic music, that is just not the case, as i said, people who slept for to long, foreseeing the development and rise of digital formats brought giants like soulseduction to a downfall... that is how hard the business and losses in vinyl sales are.
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