REC AUTOMATION TO SESSION LIVE REWRITE?

Tweaking Knobs · Post by **Tweaking Knobs** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:39 pm

what we need is a new software like live but

without the 128 limit
with the posobility to have lfo's
fully modular
able to fully customize it and create fx and synths.

Something like logic+reaktor+live

Lazos · Post by **Lazos** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:43 pm

Mr-Bit wrote:

There is also the subject of devaluation of music
through piracy and mass saturation of mp3 dl on
the market for me the solution is to develop
a live show.

So all my efforts are from that perspective I try to
create a track so it first fits a live format then I
can allways studio mix/polish later,I dont like
reverse engineering a studio track into a
live version.

For the record, for me, Live is simple to use, but intensely powerful. It could use better looping capabilities and a few other things, but a major rewrite? NO!

I've combated the devaluation of music by giving away all my mp3s. I release material on CD and vinyl now only as limited editions with quality packaging.

I also am on board with you about developing the live show. I used to hate having to reverse engineer a song from arrangement to session, but now, I've let go with that a bit because music is a service and not a product (in my mind) and my live shows are now never the same twice (that's what I hope draws the audience to come and experience a live show).

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 pm

dcease wrote:nice tunes, mate

thanks and no problem

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:56 pm

Tweaking Knobs wrote:what we need is a new software like live but

1. without the 128 limit
2. with the posobility to have lfo's
3. fully modular
4. able to fully customize it and create fx and synths.

Something like logic+reaktor+live

1. & 2. would be nice, 2. a lot easier than 1. according to Robert H and there are actually apps that give you the result of having 2, if not the integration, already - see on my website for an example.

3. what do you really mean by this? how would it be?

4. a lot of effects and synths are built from building blocks that already exist within Live so I'd say that we are there already in so far as a DAW paradigm is concerned. If you are going to move beyond the DAW paradigm you end up with two totally different programs in one = Live + Synthedit, which is too much to take on board really for 99% of users. It's like the scripting in Kontakt - I don't know anyone who uses it. Folk just want a sampler. People who want to code will code, and go to Reactor, Synthedit etc, but most Reactor users just use the ensembles and maybe tweak a bit, but that's it. Live with 'tweaking a bit'? That might be cool.

Am I just being a bit old and reactionary?
The ability to undock the native instruments from the track pane and unfold them to show all parameters at once like a proper GUI would be cool.

lola · Post by **lola** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:08 pm

I just wish for a customizable GUI (color options to make groups, and speration for the mixer:

+ some addons in the arrange better edit functions.
+ Better midi editing, legato mode options..just click and ready.
+ Midi Grid pop-up screen

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:08 pm

Live is brilliant, the only thing I could think of would be audio crossfades for vocal comping, I can work around that with 2 tracks going into a subgroup not a big deal.

7 Was quite a big update so i'd be happy with a small update, just make everything really nice and supple, some minor workflow tweaks I don't know.

Let's face it, if you can't make a good track with the way it is now, no amount of Midi LFO's bezier curves, recordable clip automation etc.etc.etc. is going to change that.

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:12 pm

djsynchro wrote:Live is brilliant, the only thing I could think of would be audio crossfades for vocal comping, I can work around that with 2 tracks going into a subgroup not a big deal.

7 Was quite a big update so i'd be happy with a small update, just make everything really nice and supple, some minor workflow tweaks I don't know.

Let's face it, if you can't make a good track with the way it is now, no amount of Midi LFO's bezier curves, recordable clip automation etc.etc.etc. is going to change that.

I must admit, the best track I ever wrote was on Live 3, no VSTs, little MIDI,

Grappadura · Post by **Grappadura** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:17 pm

I admit I don´t really know enough about the stuff to be the judge. In the end, it has to work for the user. If they find a "dirty hack" that works perfectly well for the user, I wouldn´t bother. But if the dirty hack keeps dragging more and more problems along over the years, making the system unstable, I´d be in favor of rewriting the program, the sooner the better, if they can financially afford it.

Some day (soon) it wont be an issue anymore if the program is heavy on the cpu, the processing power increases faster than the size of programs. So, the program may be full of dirty hacks, but if the user doesn´t suffer from it, I´m fine with it.

Mr-Bit · Post by **Mr-Bit** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:24 pm

"But if the dirty hack keeps dragging more and more problems along over the years"

This is a factor of my stance: its better to nip things in the bud than leave them to fester whitch could lead to more work in the long run?

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:29 pm

Mr-Bit wrote:"But if the dirty hack keeps dragging more and more problems along over the years"

This is a factor of my stance: its better to nip things in the bud than leave them to fester whitch could lead to more work in the long run?

What dirty hack? Software constantly sees new versions, hardly a dirty hack.

I highly doubt PhotoShop is going to get rewritten, surely there a few graphic artists with feature requests that are not satisfied. I don't do graphic arts, but if I did, I would know wtf I was talking here....

The truth is, we all want to blame our tools for our musical shortcomings. But it doesn't work that way. Music is 90% passion, 9% brain, 1% tools.

Mr-Bit · Post by **Mr-Bit** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:36 pm

OK

"dirty hack"

was badly quoted but the jist remains, leaving in design quirk that makes development of future features difficult and allways working around it has gotta be just putting of the inevitable and the sooner its corrected the better.

chrysalis33rpm · Post by **chrysalis33rpm** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:44 pm

Mr-Bit wrote: recording automaton to clips ,
osc ,
foldertracks sorry inline mixer of little use,
flexible parameters 128,
seemless intergration back and fourth between arr and sesh,
more loop capabilities
modulation matrix
more follow action
easy loop on loop
anything to make hardware control better
dual screen
seperatable clip grid with clip size for touch screens
seperatable multi track display

if they can sqeeze all that in by v 10 without a major overhaul great

Now there's a proper list! Yes- this stuff needs to happen in the next 2-3 years. Does it need a rewrite? How the fuck do I know?

I trust the Abes to make the call, and I'm pretty content to tithe them 100$ a year for their troubles. At least until another soft comes along which floats my boat even more...but I'm not sure that will happen! I want OSC and vinyl control so bad I can taste it. But I want the software to work right and be solid even more.

ilia · Post by **ilia** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:44 pm

djsynchro wrote:Live is brilliant, the only thing I could think of would be audio crossfades for vocal comping, I can work around that with 2 tracks going into a subgroup not a big deal..

+1

"rewriting" Live right now would be a terrible idea -- there is nothing inherently wrong with its current architecture, perhaps some features (like crossfades) require more work to implement than they would in other DAWs, but that can be overcome (hopefully, soon!). Also, recent updates has become more and more mature.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:05 pm

The rewrite will eventually have to happen if the program is going to evolve and not just for the DAWcentric features.

Much of the MIDI functionality was just tacked on and to get many of the features requested, will require a rebuild. Just as Steinberg tacked on audio onto the MIDI sequencer VST. Which was one reason why Cubase SX suddenly became a great audio sequencer but until SX3 had lost much of the MIDI functionality of VST.

The more it gets put off, the more limited each upgrade is going to be and the more pain it will be to have a built from scratch new super duper Live, that will dazzle with some features and have many things that will require many updates and bugfixes to restore previous functionality.

jonny72 · Post by **jonny72** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:03 am

This thread is a bit pointless as the only people that can comment on and discuss the need of a re-write and the work involved in doing one are the developers.

Though I always think developers exaggerate the amount of work involved in re-writes as code is a lot more modularised nowadays and a fair chunk of it will be external libraries which they never have to touch.

REC AUTOMATION TO SESSION LIVE REWRITE?

Live Rewrite