Why should I care about OSC support?

[Poster]

for sure it'll change the possibilities but essentially its like going from USB to FW..

And the Wacom tablet is just a bigger mouse

hehe.. well actually a Wacom is smaller because it has absolute dimensions..

[hoffman2k]

for sure it'll change the possibilities but essentially its like going from USB to FW..

And the Wacom tablet is just a bigger mouse

hehe.. well actually a Wacom is smaller because it has absolute dimensions..

Thats like saying Belgium is bigger than the Netherlands because our airspace is higher.
Which mousepad do you use to rub the tablet on?

[hoffman2k]

An old, but simple and effective protocol.

Yet its still too hard for ableton to make use of Program Changes, the remaining CC's, polyphonic aftertouch, Sysex and other parts of the protocol.

[Poster]

And the Wacom tablet is just a bigger mouse

hehe.. well actually a Wacom is smaller because it has absolute dimensions..

Thats like saying Belgium is bigger than the Netherlands because our airspace is higher.
Which mousepad do you use to rub the tablet on?

the working space for a normal mouse is only restricted by the length of it's cable.. or not even when you use a wireless mouse.. relative..

the working space of a Wacom is restricted by the size of the tablet itself.. absolute..

[Machinate]

the reason I'm still not really triggered by OSC is that all I hear is stuff like 'namespaces' 'adresses' 'moving clips, duplicating clips, adding effects' 'changing colors' 'selecting tracks' '12482765832 bit resolution' etc etc..

all boring stuff to me.. to just wrap Live onto a different GUI..?

When you say "just to wrap Live onto a different GUI" you have to remember that this includes "controllers" which we use for live performance - and surely you can see that doing this projection onto a different surface serves a purpose? That's where my (slightly snooty) comment regarding the tablet comes in; it's easy to reduce this "remapping" of a system to something trivial, but for the user it's not really.

Ideally we'd see Live respond in such a way that we can address a midi clip and have notes placed inside it programmatically, that sort of depth is what I lust after. Then any aspect of a controller can be made to control any of the things we'd usually be mousing around for.

what I'm interested in though is that 'other' GUI.. not necessarily that GUI but the UI..
exiting stuff as how for instance a Lemur works.. or Reaktor, Max..
so to me OSC is just the protocol that makes different communication possible..
but really.. a lot of stuff I do still goes perfectly well over MIDI..

I definitely understand that a lot of the things we like to do CAN be done via midi - I too use midi with Live, almost every day, and still have an intense love affair with midi, hehe. In lieue of better things it's the best around. Still can't help but compare these types of discussions with the ones regarding bit depth in DAWs. "Why do we need higher resolutions? 16bit, 44.1k is good enough for CDs!" etc. There's just a subset of users who have applications lined up that would really benefit from a higher degree of communication between the DAW and the outside world.

so what about the exotic stuff? not writting a letter to a clip, but the more trickery Lemur like stuff.. what could OSC bring that MIDI can't?
please enlight me..

as mentionede before, one of the things that really excite me is the type of "deep automapping" that could happen: All states of a selected device would be reported, could be shown on an outside device such as the lemur, and the user could call up a subsection of the Live interface on his or her controller - like keeping the master channel open on the controller, with full display of Gain Reduction on a limiter, compression ratios on a big multiband thingy and so on.

Right now the user is barred from having access to such things outside the screen environment, even though there are clear benefits to showing status information from Live outside a computer screen - both in the studio and on stage.
Especially when performing on stage I find it at least slightly frustrating to refer to Live for things that could be done without looking at a computer screen. OSC would help there.

And then there's the connectivity of it all: running OSC devices is total plug and play - anything can access anything, without the need for reboots or driver installs.

[hoffman2k]

What he said

[Poster]

OSC: the why?

you see.. I think I never really thought about OSC that deep because I don't really miss certain tools that I cannot find in Live or can already add inside Live with 3rd party solutions..

all could change when OSC support has arrived and I dive into it and discover new abilities..
though for now, reading all that has been said/documented, I personally don't see much I can really cheer about..

the things I desperately want/need in Live have to come from Ableton, not so much from 3rd party options..

[[nis]]

An old, but simple and effective protocol.

Yet its still too hard for ableton to make use of Program Changes, the remaining CC's, polyphonic aftertouch, Sysex and other parts of the protocol.

Ugh!

[hoffman2k]

An old, but simple and effective protocol.

Yet its still too hard for ableton to make use of Program Changes, the remaining CC's, polyphonic aftertouch, Sysex and other parts of the protocol.

Ugh!

You had me at "effective"
I'm a little on edge this close to NAMM. Not sure what caused it, the weather, unsolved mysteries, did I mention the weather?
Its nothing personal. I'm having nightmares of new novation keyboards with 25 knobs and 8 keys (for a change).

There are just a few examples of MIDI being effective where Live lacks behind for no obvious reason. For example, most Master Keyboards and Foot Pedals have a facility for PC messages. The 2 keyboards i got here have 2 different ways of entering PC messages. One has numbers printed above the keys, the other has a keypad.
But we can't use remote mapping. The best we can do is send it to a clip so we won't have to enter the message manually.

Its an example of an old, simple but effective protocol not being used to its full potential. Enter a number, confirm and there you go.
Depending on what you mapped the message to, devices will be turned on/off, selected in view, triggered and tweaked in other ways.

Hehe, damn these MIDI mapping rants. Must be my time of the month. Sorry Nico!

[Michael Hatsis]

the reason I'm still not really triggered by OSC is that all I hear is stuff like 'namespaces' 'adresses' 'moving clips, duplicating clips, adding effects' 'changing colors' 'selecting tracks' '12482765832 bit resolution' etc etc..

all boring stuff to me.. to just wrap Live onto a different GUI..?

When you say "just to wrap Live onto a different GUI" you have to remember that this includes "controllers" which we use for live performance - and surely you can see that doing this projection onto a different surface serves a purpose? That's where my (slightly snooty) comment regarding the tablet comes in; it's easy to reduce this "remapping" of a system to something trivial, but for the user it's not really.

Ideally we'd see Live respond in such a way that we can address a midi clip and have notes placed inside it programmatically, that sort of depth is what I lust after. Then any aspect of a controller can be made to control any of the things we'd usually be mousing around for.

what I'm interested in though is that 'other' GUI.. not necessarily that GUI but the UI..
exiting stuff as how for instance a Lemur works.. or Reaktor, Max..
so to me OSC is just the protocol that makes different communication possible..
but really.. a lot of stuff I do still goes perfectly well over MIDI..

I definitely understand that a lot of the things we like to do CAN be done via midi - I too use midi with Live, almost every day, and still have an intense love affair with midi, hehe. In lieue of better things it's the best around. Still can't help but compare these types of discussions with the ones regarding bit depth in DAWs. "Why do we need higher resolutions? 16bit, 44.1k is good enough for CDs!" etc. There's just a subset of users who have applications lined up that would really benefit from a higher degree of communication between the DAW and the outside world.

so what about the exotic stuff? not writting a letter to a clip, but the more trickery Lemur like stuff.. what could OSC bring that MIDI can't?
please enlight me..

as mentionede before, one of the things that really excite me is the type of "deep automapping" that could happen: All states of a selected device would be reported, could be shown on an outside device such as the lemur, and the user could call up a subsection of the Live interface on his or her controller - like keeping the master channel open on the controller, with full display of Gain Reduction on a limiter, compression ratios on a big multiband thingy and so on.

Right now the user is barred from having access to such things outside the screen environment, even though there are clear benefits to showing status information from Live outside a computer screen - both in the studio and on stage.
Especially when performing on stage I find it at least slightly frustrating to refer to Live for things that could be done without looking at a computer screen. OSC would help there.

And then there's the connectivity of it all: running OSC devices is total plug and play - anything can access anything, without the need for reboots or driver installs.

what he said

[[nis]]

Hehe, damn these MIDI mapping rants. Must be my time of the month. Sorry Nico!

No worries. I even agree with you in most parts.

I'm a little on edge this close to NAMM. Not sure what caused it, the weather, unsolved mysteries, did I mention the weather?

Not sure if this helps, but the trend doesn't look too bad:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/s ... nav_sports



Happy new year,
n.

[hoffman2k]

Not sure if this helps, but the trend doesn't look too bad:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/s ... nav_sports



Happy new year,
n.

The pale Ableton programmers going out for a tan. And here I am getting my Bildschirmbraeune.
13 more days... Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Happy Newyear

Bjorn

[friend_kami]

do i need more that 128 possible knob positions for something ?

yep yep, good luck with those smooth filtersweeps then.