If You Want to Learn Web Design Where Do You Start?

[sgx]

I'd like to echo the suggestions to learn HTML and CSS, then get familiar with a CMS like Wordpress or Drupal.

I used to build my sites for my music from scratch and just update by updating my static .html pages. This was ok for a bit, but we're in "web 2.0" now and lots of people expect dynamic features like RSS feeds, comment systems, etc and you REALLY don't want to learn all the programming and database BS that goes with that unless you're dedicating your career to web development.

My current site for my music, http://www.sgxmusic.com is html from scratch (really sloppy code), plus a developer friend of mine put together a very simple news update system that will post entries to my front page. It's served me well for about 4 years now, but I've been wanting to get a comment system and automatic streaming song players on it for some time, so I may be redoing it soon with Drupal or Dreamweaver.

I also run a little net label site for me and my friends where I post news and songs from us, plus have a webstore. This site is about a year old. I used Drupal with a bunch of added plugins. http://www.protagonistrecords.net . It's working out pretty well. Blog format, sorting posts by tags, comment system, RSS feed, podcast feed, streaming songs, download counters, etc. I just installed Drupal, spent time configuring it how I liked, added plugins, entered in the content, and used CSS to change the look of it.

Really, if you want any of that web 2.0 dynamic features, you should use some sort of CMS. If you're doing very simple static pages, you'll be fine if you just know html and CSS.

Plus, I hope you have an eye for visual design.

[starving student]

I really appreciate all of this insight you guys are great, i guess I'm intrested in both design and building but this thread is really about building (coding), I know it must be very gratifying when you guys (that can do this) want an instrument and you just build it, or a platform for your music and you just build it, that's what I want. I really enjoy working with others but I hate to have to depend on it. I can play several instruments and if I had to call somebody every time I needed a guitar part for a song it would kill me.

tell me something though, alot of you have explained very clearly about the pitfalls of all of this, so what is the reason you continue to do it, there must be a really bright side to keep on going?

[babkubwa]

I also run a little net label site for me and my friends where I post news and songs from us, plus have a webstore. This site is about a year old. I used Drupal with a bunch of added plugins. http://www.protagonistrecords.net . It's working out pretty well. Blog format, sorting posts by tags, comment system, RSS feed, podcast feed, streaming songs, download counters, etc. I just installed Drupal, spent time configuring it how I liked, added plugins, entered in the content, and used CSS to change the look of it.

Really impressed with the shop! I've been struggling to set up a label shop on my wordpress site using instinct wp commerce plugin. Might have to drop it and check out drupal now I've seen this. Got all the right features - preview players, choice of 2 decent formats , navigations dead easy. I especially like the tip feature! Nice work!

[rbro]

Didn't read the whole thread, so maybe someone mentioned it, but check out http://www.lynda.com.

[ashtonron]

tell me something though, alot of you have explained very clearly about the pitfalls of all of this, so what is the reason you continue to do it, there must be a really bright side to keep on going?

I actually enjoy it.. even though I can moan about it all day long, it is a very creative process and involves a lot of careful thinking. but after a days work you generally have something to show for it.

It also pays the rent

[synnack]

I think Angstrom makes some very good points. But I would like to play devils advocate for a second.

If you use wordpress+plugin+theme you will have the following issues:

1) Your site will look like everyone elses. I browse sites all the time and can recognize wordpress on contact. Things like wordpress have made websites commodities. What differentiates your band/label from all the other template junkies? I find it funny that so many forum users are against using presets to make your music, yet you'd use a template to make your web site. I see it as very similar things.

2) Security of the site. A vulnerability in wordpress, is now a vulnerability of the entire internet since so many people use the same code. Every time there is a wp vulnerability, bots are deployed to exploit it on every wordpress site. I see scans for specific wordpress files in my http logs all day.

3) For me personally, none of the ready-made templates, plugins, shopping carts actually do what I want. Rather than spending the time learning someone else's code in order to change it and add the features I want, I might as well make my own. That way I not only understand it well, but I've addressed points 1 and 2.

For these reasons and more I built my own band web sites. I also built my labels site and am working on the online shop.

http://forceofnature.cc/shop/

Most of these template systems are not designed for selling digital music but physical products. They have no preview capability for audio and no way to browse other than by "category" which doesn't really work for music.

Plus I actually like coding. To me it's just like music in that it's an escape from reality. I can easily get lost in a technical issue and it keeps my brain functional.

[Angstrom]

For these reasons and more I built my own band web sites. I also built my labels site and am working on the online shop.
http://forceofnature.cc/shop/

Most of these template systems are not designed for selling digital music but physical products. They have no preview capability for audio and no way to browse other than by "category" which doesn't really work for music.

Plus I actually like coding. To me it's just like music in that it's an escape from reality. I can easily get lost in a technical issue and it keeps my brain functional.

yes, but how long did it take you to get where you are now from your first steps in HTML?
A while I bet. Not a year, probably not two years.
It's like a time-served surgeon saying "I actually like heart surgery and I find it not particularly hard to do a double bypass". This is not really appropriate to the potential of the first-year med student!

If you thought back on all the time invested in getting to the point where it is easy you might find that the cost in actual man-hours of adding that "bespoke audio preview" was about 8000 hours of required learning (2.7 years of 8 hours a day)

[epiphanius]

Despite its appearance, this:

http://www.lissaexplains.com/

is a great place to start with html. If you can explain something to a child, you probably understand it - this site fits.


e.

[Hidden Driveways]

tell me something though, alot of you have explained very clearly about the pitfalls of all of this, so what is the reason you continue to do it, there must be a really bright side to keep on going?

I like the independence of knowing that if I get an idea for a site, I can buy the domain and have a functional website up very quickly. I like it because it's a medium I can use to reach people.

I just don't find the "work" part of it very fun to do.

tempus3r - Technically building a site from scratch is not a possibility for me. I mean, I can do it with my somewhat shaky HTML and CSS skills, but the site is so much more dynamic if I do it in Wordpress. To me, I don't mind so much if it looks like a Wordpress site. I believe the value of a website is its content, not the individuality of its layout.

[Angstrom]

like a Wordpress site. I believe the value of a website is its content, not the individuality of its layout.

I think you have a very valid point there.
Although design plays a very strong role in helping users to understand and interact with sites and interfaces, if what the user is actually interfacing with is "a shopping cart for music" you can actually get away with very little. Similarly with "a blog site", general users are not going to care about the design as long as it all works OK and is not overly fussy

The longer I do this job the simpler my sites become.

[jonny72]

like a Wordpress site. I believe the value of a website is its content, not the individuality of its layout.

I think you have a very valid point there.
Although design plays a very strong role in helping users to understand and interact with sites and interfaces, if what the user is actually interfacing with is "a shopping cart for music" you can actually get away with very little. Similarly with "a blog site", general users are not going to care about the design as long as it all works OK and is not overly fussy

The longer I do this job the simpler my sites become.

I ran an online shop for a number of years, using an off the shelf open source eCommerce package. When I launched it I just went with the default template / layout which probably 10'000s of others sites use - though I customised the features a fair bit.

I then did a couple of sites using the same code for my brother who sold the same thing (but 2nd hand / specialist etc) and he wanted to use templates he paid for to make the site look better. In the meantime, another online shop launched in direct competition with me which was way prettier with a cooler layout.

I decided it was time to give my site a fresh lick of paint. I spoke with a fair few of my customers first and asked them what they thought about my site, my brothers, the competition etc. Every single one of them told me to leave my site as it was, they found it simple, clean and easy to use and they liked it the way it was. Most commented on the competitors site being a pain in the arse as it took so long to load due to all the flashy graphics they had on it. So I never changed it.

Unfortunately far too many web designers worry about how the site looks and don't give a thought to usability, simplicity and content. I still can't get my head round those web sites that have 30 second long animations before you can get anywhere. Or those that use Flash / Shockwave or whatever it is for the entire site - takes ages to load and navigation is shit. Same goes for sites that still use frames, they went out of fashion 10 years ago.

[b0unce]

[sleepwalkermusic]

If you want to build a website, just get Dreamweaver and start. If you want to get paid, move on to something else. Not worth the investment.

[starving student]

man you guys are all over the place with this but It's great to see all of these opinions, this has helped alot especialy since I know alot of your personalities.

[gjm]

Wifey builds websites every now and then. She just buys a web package that she knows like the back of her hand (on sells it with a markup), uses a bit of photoshop for images, some cheapo animation package for people who want moving things, and an email news letter package which is subscription based. They are not fancy sites and makes that clear. The money is not necessarily in the building, although its markup and quoted hours, its in maintaining and upgrading the site content. Its all hourly based. Every single client just does not have the time to do the site stuff themselves, and most don't even want to learn. Its awesome money for the time she puts in, compared to the other things she does.