Ableton Forum

The bottom line really is that if the OP truly was not able to find any information on his own about this oft repeated and utterly tiresome subject than whatever he does decide on isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to him anyway.

I don't think the guy should necessarily be slated for posting a new thread on this - things change a lot in the computer world - Windows 7 is part of the discussion now

but I just got a Macbook yesterday - my HP laptop was on in a storm and got fried (old house, dodgy electrics) so insurance sorted me out

I had already decided a while ago I'd get a mac this time - and the main reason is because I can *legitimately* have both platforms on the one machine - to me that is worth gold

I tried the Hackintosh way before and it's just annoying

also, setting up windows XP on this with Bootcamp was actually easier than any PC install I've done before - I had a total nightmare trying to do a dual boot setup on my HP laptop because they try and force you not to

I had some troubles with OSX at first, but that was because the people in the shop for some reason decided to do the setup for me and I just did a clean install and it's fine now

I would go Mac. Mainly because right now people are holding on to XP, nobody likes Vista, and it's not really that smart to jump in right away on a new operating system with Windows 7 etc. for something you want as stable as possible. Had you asked that question four years ago I would say PC, simply because of all the maneuvering Apple was doing changing chips and getting everybody on board with OSX and Audio Untits etc.
They cost too much, and none are as bad ass as a Panasonic Tough Book, but really that's about the only PC laptop that's close.
I'm one of those people that looks for deals though, got mine off craigslist new for half what they go for.

Changing your hard drive does not void your warranty, Apple just won't cover the hard drive you replaced theirs with, that's all.

Rabid wrote:I use a $3000.00 MacBookPro and a refurbished HP laptop that can be picked up at PC Mall for $700. They are both 17" hi-res with the same processor. The differences.

MacBookPro:

Pros: Mine has FW800 with was a big reason for me to buy it. I use FW800 drives for audio and FW400 audio cards. Decent internal audio. Stable as long as Apple does not kill my 3rd party AU's again with update to the specs that sends software developers into a mad scramble to fix their instruments. Can boot off of a firewire drive and it is easy to set up a 2GB external FW800 drive as the boot drive.

Cons: Have to remove 30 screws and void my warranty if I want to upgrade my HD myself. No ability to install software on a secondary drive. Programs want to install on the primary drive. Some new MBP's have 3rd party firewire chips that interfaces do not like. New models only come with the shiny, reflective screens.

HP Windows Machine:

Pros: Much easier to upgrade HD's myself. Numeric keypad. More control when installing software. Microsoft does not usually break music software or VSTi's with Windows updates. For the price of my MacBookPro I can buy three of these HP refurbished units, or two laptops and a good audio interface.

Cons: Have to be careful not to let it get bogged down with software junk from the Internet. Newer models have devices which don't have XP drivers.

I still run Live from my MacBookPro, but when that computer dies I will not replace it with another Mac. The value is not there and Mac keeps making it harder for users to upgrade their hardware in a laptop. If I had my $3000 back I would use it to buy two Windows computers and a high end audio interface.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

Although actually I use a pcmcia firewire extension on my HP so I got firewire too

Geezus wrote:
Although actually I use a pcmcia firewire extension on my HP so I got firewire too

actually that's another reason - the 6 pin firewire, although some PCs have it, but not many, and the downside is I now have to be weary of Hotplugging my FW410, but I can live with that

Geezus wrote:

Rabid wrote:I use a $3000.00 MacBookPro and a refurbished HP laptop that can be picked up at PC Mall for $700. They are both 17" hi-res with the same processor. The differences.

MacBookPro:

Pros: Mine has FW800 with was a big reason for me to buy it. I use FW800 drives for audio and FW400 audio cards. Decent internal audio. Stable as long as Apple does not kill my 3rd party AU's again with update to the specs that sends software developers into a mad scramble to fix their instruments. Can boot off of a firewire drive and it is easy to set up a 2GB external FW800 drive as the boot drive.

Cons: Have to remove 30 screws and void my warranty if I want to upgrade my HD myself. No ability to install software on a secondary drive. Programs want to install on the primary drive. Some new MBP's have 3rd party firewire chips that interfaces do not like. New models only come with the shiny, reflective screens.

HP Windows Machine:

Pros: Much easier to upgrade HD's myself. Numeric keypad. More control when installing software. Microsoft does not usually break music software or VSTi's with Windows updates. For the price of my MacBookPro I can buy three of these HP refurbished units, or two laptops and a good audio interface.

Cons: Have to be careful not to let it get bogged down with software junk from the Internet. Newer models have devices which don't have XP drivers.

I still run Live from my MacBookPro, but when that computer dies I will not replace it with another Mac. The value is not there and Mac keeps making it harder for users to upgrade their hardware in a laptop. If I had my $3000 back I would use it to buy two Windows computers and a high end audio interface.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

Although actually I use a pcmcia firewire extension on my HP so I got firewire too

Not entirely, again, replacing your HD does not void your warrantee. Apple won't cover the replaced HD, that's all.

The other concern remains, that XP is the last stable OS for audio from Windows, and 7 is already in beta. It's actually the same as OSX was four years ago when things weren't entirely stable hardware wise with Apple etc.
At this point, I would always go with whomever is more stable OS wise, and right now that's Mac.
Who knows? Windows 7 could smoke Snow Leopard, but right now Leopard>Vista for audio.

forge wrote: I had already decided a while ago I'd get a mac this time - and the main reason is because I can *legitimately* have both platforms on the one machine - to me that is worth gold

I tried the Hackintosh way before and it's just annoying

also, setting up windows XP on this with Bootcamp was actually easier than any PC install I've done before - I had a total nightmare trying to do a dual boot setup on my HP laptop because they try and force you not to

I had some troubles with OSX at first, but that was because the people in the shop for some reason decided to do the setup for me and I just did a clean install and it's fine now

That's pretty much my take too.
I've been using both for years, but since bootcamp came along my PC-only machines have been slowly leaving the building. In fact, the last one left the building about 6 months ago when I replaced my iMac and home-built PC with a Mac Pro.

In terms of reliability and stability across the systems, I've never noticed a difference IF (and only if) you are comparing equivalent systems of equal quality. My XP machines (and 2000 and 98 before that) never really gave me much trouble... I picked good hardware with good driver support and kept my patch levels sane and made frequent backups of everything. No issues in well over 6 years. My OS X machines have been equally as solid (don't get me started about OS 9 or earlier though... garbage, those were).

These days, I have an iMac with Leopard for our "family" machine (non-DAW), a Macbook bootcamped with XP (audio machine, with mobile office apps since it's my only laptop), and a Mac Pro as my primary workstation with Leopard, bootcamped XP, and a half-dozen other OS running in virtual machines. VERY happy with that setup.

To the OP:
Laptop-wise, you'll be quite fine with either:
A newish (or refurbed) Macbook or Macbook Pro... which one you get depends on your preferences, budget, and FW/expansion requirements, but they'll all work fine for Live.
Or, a custom DAW builder's laptop. There are several to choose from (studiocat, adkproaudio, etc.), and they'll cost you a bit more than a dell or hp BUT you get support. If you already know Windows and don't need a Mac, this is probably what you'd be more comfortable with (though bootcamp is simple, and Live works on Leopard too, so...).

No way I'd go into the maze that is "off-the-shelf" Windows laptops. There are some good ones, but it really is a maze... there are hundreds of them.

But past that, Macs and PCs both "just work," if you get the right one and know what you're doing (try not to surf to much porn on an unpatched, unprotected Windows XP machine though).

Take care,
- zevo

inmazevo wrote: In terms of reliability and stability across the systems, I've never noticed a difference IF (and only if) you are comparing equivalent systems of equal quality.

I've been getting a few lockups, and it seems to be related to the FAT32 partitions. I decided to format the XP partition FAT32 so I could share files between them and I'm beginning to regret it. Pretty much every time I boot into windows it locks up at some point the first time, then I have to restart>chkdsk and then it's ok...pretty much the same process without fail

I've also had lockups both sides with FAT32 external drive partitions

but on other things I am finding OSX just a more enjoyable experience - things like using my FW external HD daisy chained from my FW410 - I just couldn't do that on and windows machine reliably, I had to unplug the FW410 while I used the HD, the mac handles it fine. It does this slightly weird repeating/delay type thing with any audio playing when I turn it on or off, but it lasts for about a second then everything;s fine

also, spotlight is way better than windows search - and I found generally speaking I often needed more 3rd party utilities for things like that on XP

XP is great if you like to tweak, I'm just a bit over that now

now that I've gone over I don't think I'll go back!

Thanks for all the mac vs pc replies. I'm seriously considering buying a badass rackmount pc for $1100, but I'm staying open to the mac idea in the meantime and all this back-and-forth helps me decide. That being said, I have no problem setting up a new windows machine, and I very rarely encounter the constant windows problems everyone mentions. Then again I've been using microsoft operating systems for 25 years.