Ableton Forum

knotkranky wrote:all them peoples are fine. The dickhead with the site is the sad one.

aisling wrote:

Angstrom wrote:I just don't understand the sub-culture hating.

I have no problem at all with people who 'dress weird' or 'want to get noticed'. In fact hooray for them, because although it's easy to label them as a gang of stereotype dull posers - for fucks sake this forum is filled with musicians and DJs. The epitome of self-loving converstaion killing tedious me me me culture.

Once, long ago, I was sat in a bar with my new girl of the time, she was a nurse. She had no idea what I did for a living. Anyway a bunch of musos came in and of course I knew them, I was in a band with some of them even. She said :" look at those wankers, you can tell they're in a band, because they think they are fucking IT, looking round the bar to see who's noticed them. God I hate musicians". And she was totally right, the subtle behavior that permeates most performers in public is one of checking the room, making deals, telling tall tales, self-agrandizement.

You see, just to be a musician that steps outside the bedroom you must be a self-involved egotist, you must think that your genre, your interpretation, your very personality is simply fascinating. Even the introverted musicians are self-involved.

So really, anyone in the 'music biz' who wants to castigate people who dress unusually for wanting to draw attention to themselves really needs to remember all those posters you printed out with your stupid made-up name on, and the whole thing where you stand on a raised platform in front of people and make them look at you in the hope they will like you.

remember that minor detail?

I think to be fair and clarify, there are authentic people who just are hip, iconoclastic, move to a different beat.....Have had many unique experiences that are expressed through their style.
Those types are purely inspiring and a breath of fresh air. No judgement upon them.....

Then there are the "posers"...those talk the talk......dress the dress....but have no authenticity, originality, or personality beyond what the pop culture they are regurgitating is..... while ultimately every time we point the finger and judge, there are three pointing back at us (so it is best to live and let live), I can't help but feel a sense of "despair and disillusionment" regarding the dilution of originality.

That probably makes no sense...... thanks for at least reading my rhetoric.

Angstrom wrote:I like hipsters, if that's what these people are.
here I see only guys with cropped hair and shell suits, baseball caps and a vacant stare.


they migrate from the malevolent street roaming kind into 'driving around in a Merc with black windows and a boot full of weapons' about the age of 20. Pretty much every bar/club/anything is filled to the brim with them.
So for me, seeing anyone with a weird outfit or conspicious weirdness is a breth of fresh air. At least I can be pretty sure they aren't going to randomly injure me or my girl just to satisfy their pathetic gang membership requirements.

give me a city full of hipsters over a city full of scallies / neds any day.

aisling wrote: Then there are the "posers"...those talk the talk......dress the dress....but have no authenticity, originality, or personality beyond what the pop culture they are regurgitating is..... while ultimately every time we point the finger and judge, there are three pointing back at us (so it is best to live and let live), I can't help but feel a sense of "despair and disillusionment" regarding the dilution of originality.

That probably makes no sense...... thanks for at least reading my rhetoric. :oops:

Angstrom wrote:

aisling wrote: Then there are the "posers"...those talk the talk......dress the dress....but have no authenticity, originality, or personality beyond what the pop culture they are regurgitating is..... while ultimately every time we point the finger and judge, there are three pointing back at us (so it is best to live and let live), I can't help but feel a sense of "despair and disillusionment" regarding the dilution of originality.

That probably makes no sense...... thanks for at least reading my rhetoric.

Trying to gauge the social value of something via 'authenticity' and 'originality' is just wrong. You are using the wrong measure.

The social value of something is in its resonance within a specific community. If a seed idea resonates then it will grow and be copied. You can be as 'original' as you like, have fantastical seed ideas, but if it doesn't get copied then your originality was worthless. If you start criticising the copyists then you miss the point because more copies simply means it has a potent meme (a postulated unit or element of cultural ideas, symbols or practices). I can hate on repetitive dance all I like, but it still has value regardless of its relentless unoriginality.

Remember : Wheat has value when it is present in great numbers, wheat has little value as a single bizarre stem out on its own. 'original' and 'authentic' is fine for seeds, but the proof and value is show if it proliferates

just because you don't like wheat doesn't make it valueless

aisling wrote:I think you helped me see the light with your analogy

Angstrom wrote:I like hipsters, if that's what these people are.
here I see only guys with cropped hair and shell suits, baseball caps and a vacant stare.


they migrate from the malevolent street roaming kind into 'driving around in a Merc with black windows and a boot full of weapons' about the age of 20. Pretty much every bar/club/anything is filled to the brim with them.
So for me, seeing anyone with a weird outfit or conspicious weirdness is a breth of fresh air. At least I can be pretty sure they aren't going to randomly injure me or my girl just to satisfy their pathetic gang membership requirements.

give me a city full of hipsters over a city full of scallies / neds any day.