Ableton Forum

LoopStationZebra wrote:Garageband?

totally. under thought, over designed. emulating console hiss? are they going to model failing caps and tape misalignment too? can i flip the rack over and see the tape reels?

scientist wrote:

LoopStationZebra wrote:Garageband?

totally. under thought, over designed. emulating console hiss? are they going to model failing caps and tape misalignment too? can i flip the rack over and see the tape reels?

LOL - Can you get the virtual tape to break as well?

This is the most retarded application ever, IF i was a reason user, i'd be pissed. It should be Reason 5 not a separate application like Recycle. So now Reason heads will shell out cash for Recycle, Record and they still can't do VST's, AU or any other 3rd party plug-in's/instruments. WACK.

I trash Ableton alot but the seamless integration for everything is phenomenal and this is my thank you for the people at Ableton.

/rant

Tone Deft wrote:I wrote it was a 'niche audience.'
and it could only compare to Live 'as far as total custom user tweakability.' they have card they can play with Reaktor.

Its funny when people say this "niche audience" thing.

I used to work for Props. I saw the sales data for the industry. Reason is the number one selling MI software of its type. At the time its sales were only rivaled by NI's suite of products vs. Props one product.

Reason appeals to a much broader base of users that Live does. Live is a great product and is adding tons of useful features all the time, but don't forget that Live is really the niche product for niche users that is growing out of that space.

Reason started out as a broad appeal to lots of music makers - and is only increasing its suite of tools via Record. I don't know if its still the number one selling software in the DAW, MI software space, but its clearly not a niche product for niche users.

rob.

blueprint wrote:This is the most retarded application ever, IF i was a reason user, i'd be pissed. It should be Reason 5 not a separate application like Recycle. So now Reason heads will shell out cash for Recycle, Record and they still can't do VST's, AU or any other 3rd party plug-in's/instruments. WACK.

I trash Ableton alot but the seamless integration for everything is phenomenal and this is my thank you for the people at Ableton.

/rant

Allow me to disagree. Don't want to start a flame war here and this is just my point of view.

Owning both R4 an Live Suite 8, i'm not pissed off at Props. I always loved Reason and i still use it rewired to Live in most of my songs when i need to record a guitar or vocal. When i don't need to record audio, i use Reason only and get pretty good results out of it.

I don't have any VST synth or fx as i can pretty much get the sounds i want out of Reason. It's a matter of reading the manual and getting to know the program. The CVs and cabling in Reason are way more powerful than it seems at first. While i do reckon that it take a while to get used to it, i think that's what sets Reason apart from other soft synths, and probably one of the reasons (no pun intended) that ppl complain so much about Reason: it's not that easy to use and you can't get instant 'in your face' sounds as you do with many VSTs out there.

Anyways, to make a long story short: i'm gonna wait for tomorrow and see what's gonna be revealed by the Props. I can't bash Record nor have an opinion about it without even knowing more details. I just find a bit annoying that some ppl like to bash a program that's not even released yet... On the Props forum there are ppl saying FAIL just for the sake of it...

Ah, well, for each it's own. L8 and R4 are, in my opinion, a fantastic combo. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Tone Deft wrote:
Reason is a niche audience. I could see NI adding Reaktor to Reason, make your own rack devices. that would make it more on the level with Live as far as total custom user tweakability.

So your Operator lfo can control your Sampler samplestart?

shlomo wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:
Reason is a niche audience. I could see NI adding Reaktor to Reason, make your own rack devices. that would make it more on the level with Live as far as total custom user tweakability.

So your Operator lfo can control your Sampler samplestart?

dunno why I'd want it to. as a Reason user all I can assume is that you're a no talent mouse jockey and can't play a REAL instrument like MUSICIANS do. omfg fanboy you want to compare Live to Reason? fail.

I'd rewire max into Live if I wanted wankery like that.

Tone Deft wrote:
I'd rewire max into Live if I wanted wankery like that.

so much about total user tweakability...

fanboy!

robtronik wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:I wrote it was a 'niche audience.'
and it could only compare to Live 'as far as total custom user tweakability.' they have card they can play with Reaktor.

Its funny when people say this "niche audience" thing.

I used to work for Props. I saw the sales data for the industry. Reason is the number one selling MI software of its type. At the time its sales were only rivaled by NI's suite of products vs. Props one product.

MI software? "its type" you have to narrow your argument down to a specific type of software for it to hold up. weak.

Reason appeals to a much broader base of users that Live does. Live is a great product and is adding tons of useful features all the time, but don't forget that Live is really the niche product for niche users that is growing out of that space.

bunch of BULLSHIT. last I checked musicians actually play instruments. you cannot record audio into Reason, it's for a SMALL niche of music called electronica. growing out of that space? you're way too impressed that they finally figured out how to record audio.

Reason started out as a broad appeal to lots of music makers - and is only increasing its suite of tools via Record. I don't know if its still the number one selling software in the DAW, MI software space, but its clearly not a niche product for niche users.

rob.

it's a niche product for people that make electronic music. people have been making music for thousands of years. this f-ing electronic music people are making only represents a small area of music. even in terms of sales electronic music is small. I hate that these forums are so focused on electronic music, there's a LOT more out there than a bleeps and bloops.


I appreciate your experience but your scope is incredibly limited.

FANBOY CAGE MATCH!!!!

shlomo wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:
I'd rewire max into Live if I wanted wankery like that.

so much about total user tweakability...

fanboy!

lol
the backside of Reason with its silly swinging cables is pretty cool with the 'happy accident' of wiring weird things together but enough with the old joke of running software that looks like hardware.

again, what would a REAL musician do with Reason?

mouse jockeys


but seriously... use what works for you, that's my advice for which DAW is best. it's not a fun argument, but that's my stance. there are many great options for all of us.

Tone Deft wrote: again, what would a REAL musician do with Reason?

play music?


max2reason2live{mouse.no; knobs.no}.play

Reason has its place in the music industry and none of us can take that away. The Props. are a well respected name. Its hard to believe that the Props. did not sit and think carefully re the direction they decided to take. It would be very interesting to hear some of the pro arguments for this direction they took since it clearly must have prevailed over those against.

I can bet however that CPU had to be one of the major factors for doing it like they did.Of course, CPU usage has always been one of Reason's main forte. As a record producer it always is comforting to know that Reason is there stable and secure to come home to in case some experiment went wrong.

To me the big whopping disappointment to this is that Propellerheads invented ReWire. Rewire has been in need of an update for modern OS's for years. Currently on OSX, and I'm sure you can do the same in XP, you have to use two programs to mimic rewire in order to not lose VST/AU etc. plugins, one to sync the transports and send MIDI between the two DAWs etc. and one to pipe audio. At least on OSX, this should be all in one little package, a MIDI,sync, and audio piping application that you can open then assign virtual MIDI and audio ports to, and for instance get Mainstage synced to Live, or run Kore stand alone, and synced to Live etc.

Rewire does this with a master slave relationship that was probably needed in Windows 98 and OS9 days, but now it's on OSX at least really obvious that someone could throw something like this together, and that Propellerheads were the obvious choice for that. Basically I could give two shits about Record, but it effectively kills Rewire 3 IMO. Lame.

USB dongle? Oh dear... *fail*

funny thing is.. i'm sure that fanboys of logic and pro tools are all over in their forums saying the same shit about Live that most of you are saying here about Reason. There is no ultimate software program. Everyone wants more than they already have. For some, Live has everything they could want. For others, Reason has everything they need. And for most, it seems like they'll never be happy. No program will have ever have every feature they want or need and even if the developer happens to include one of their feature wishes in the next major update, they'll want more. Especially since they're dishing out their hard-earned cash for this project, not realizing the company needs to make a buck too. For me, Live is pretty close to anything I want to be able to do. Sure I want more... who doesn't? I also love using Reason for certain things. Redrum has got to be the easiest way to make a beat. I could really care less if Reason or even Record supports VSTs. In my mind, it's not necessary. That's why we have Rewire. Most people use 2 or 3 apps for recording and mastering anyway. If any one program did everything we could ever want it to do, it would be priced at such a high cost that nobody here would own it anyway!