Equipment for a live setup

[SubFunk]

Bose systems can sound good, I've some that were fun to listen to. thing is with their overhead you can get the same quality at lower prices. google "Bose sucks" to feel the wrath of Bose consumers. they've also been known to lie about specs. the perceived quality of audio is relative, even then one has to start paying attention to good systems for a while to get the feel for what terms like 'warm' and 'muddy' mean. the average consumer really doesn't know or care to put thought into their home theater setup, Bose is after that crowd and they succeed. companies like them make me sick.

OP - you don't want Bose though, you want powered monitors. those are speakers that have amplifiers built into them. the advantage is that the amp and speaker are made for each other.


maybe you can post what you've decided on and what your leftover budget is. with $4k to spend a Mac is half that budget. so, what's up?

+1 about bose, they are just overpriced you can get more for your money, that's all.
And another +1 for an active system it's way easier to set up for your purpose, the other advantages tone deft already mentioned... All the systems i suggested are active

[Dash]

Bose systems can sound good, I've some that were fun to listen to. thing is with their overhead you can get the same quality at lower prices. google "Bose sucks" to feel the wrath of Bose consumers. they've also been known to lie about specs. the perceived quality of audio is relative, even then one has to start paying attention to good systems for a while to get the feel for what terms like 'warm' and 'muddy' mean. the average consumer really doesn't know or care to put thought into their home theater setup, Bose is after that crowd and they succeed. companies like them make me sick.

OP - you don't want Bose though, you want powered monitors. those are speakers that have amplifiers built into them. the advantage is that the amp and speaker are made for each other.


maybe you can post what you've decided on and what your leftover budget is. with $4k to spend a Mac is half that budget. so, what's up?

Good idea Tone Deft.

I realize am going to end up spending more than my budget eventually so im just trying to get things started. I will start with the bare essentials to get my feet wet with ableton and logic. I will slowley build my setup as I become more skilled. This makes the most sense to me rather then spending all my money on equipment I dont know how to fully impliment.

That being said, what equipment would you guys suggest as being my essential core setup to get me rolling in live/logic?

Speakers? A controller? Keyboard? Should the interface come first?

I found a local recording engineer that is selling is 1 and a half year old MBP 17" that he maxed out the specs for 1700$. He works for apple and seems trustworthy so im probably going to get that unless any of you have reasonable objections.

For the interface I was looking at http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MultiExpBun
and this Motu http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3/
I am not very good at understanding the specs so I am not really sure which way to turn here.

On the subject of controllers, as it seems now, I am going to be using mainly Live and Logic pro 8. Reason 4 might come into play at times.

"cables - make your own if you can."

Does this accompany much difficulty? Do you have any resources on this?

"since you're needing these for live use, i would say just go with the Shure SM58S model."

Yeah sounds good. I probably will need a studio mic for anything I feel like pre-recording.


I will join the wagon with the contempt for Bose. For speakers ill look into the powered JBLs/Mackies. The Mackies I have looked at already look like a dream but cost 2K for a set. Perhaps These will have to wait a lil bit

Thanks for all of your guys's help, what a great community here!

-Dash

[mikemc]

I will join the wagon with the contempt for Bose.

sorry I made the suggestion and didn't mean to sound like I was touting the company, but I do like the way mine sounds and the system fits in the trunk of my car.

Also, the larger Mackies do sound really good.

Maybe the best thing to suggest re: powered speakers without stirring up the undercurrent of seething wrath would be to go to a place where you'll be able to compare multiple systems in your price range side by side.

[edit] now regarding your interface, you are comparing RME or Motu, or RME *and* a Motu? If you can afford the RME and your MBP will accomodate the expresscard, that seems like the better choice.

[bosonHavoc]

along with the RME your going to need microphone preamps.
which could be accomplished with an analog mixer.
but its extra gear to carry around.
the motu has 2 mic pre's so if you only needed to mic's your golden.

its a tough choice though.. i'm thinking if i had the options between the 2 what i would go for.
for a live performance rig i'd probably go for the motu
buuut the RME is a pretty sweet piece of gear.

then again the extra money saved if you go with the motu could be put into other things like midi controllers or cabling.. and cabling isn't cheap.

building cable is easy as pie but its not for everyone
http://www.redco.com/shopdisplaycategories.asp
i havn't watched this but it looks like a good over view of building cable
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/3117 ... -tools.htm

in the end you may still want an analog mixer.
we have a Yamaha 10 channel mixer that we use to control our monitors with.
the FOH sound engineer can never get monitors sounding good and it s a big waste of time to ask them to adjust things when we can do it better and quicker.

i also like to give FOH as much control of the FOH sound as possible because they can make us sound good of stage. so i send vox, keys, bass, evrything else.
i'd like to split it up a little more and i will ounce i build my spliter.

but what ever just play and learn your getting good advice from this forum so what ever you buy will be good gear.

has anyone pointed to these places yet?

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/

(careful with gearlutz they will have you wanting to shop here http://www.mercenary.com/
which isn't a place to go if you don't want to spend your life savings. lol

[McQ714]

Good idea Tone Deft.

I realize am going to end up spending more than my budget eventually so im just trying to get things started. I will start with the bare essentials to get my feet wet with ableton and logic. I will slowley build my setup as I become more skilled. This makes the most sense to me rather then spending all my money on equipment I dont know how to fully impliment.

That being said, what equipment would you guys suggest as being my essential core setup to get me rolling in live/logic?

Speakers? A controller? Keyboard? Should the interface come first?

I found a local recording engineer that is selling is 1 and a half year old MBP 17" that he maxed out the specs for 1700$. He works for apple and seems trustworthy so im probably going to get that unless any of you have reasonable objections.

For the interface I was looking at http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MultiExpBun
and this Motu http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/828mk3/
I am not very good at understanding the specs so I am not really sure which way to turn here.

On the subject of controllers, as it seems now, I am going to be using mainly Live and Logic pro 8. Reason 4 might come into play at times.

"cables - make your own if you can."

Does this accompany much difficulty? Do you have any resources on this?

"since you're needing these for live use, i would say just go with the Shure SM58S model."

Yeah sounds good. I probably will need a studio mic for anything I feel like pre-recording.


I will join the wagon with the contempt for Bose. For speakers ill look into the powered JBLs/Mackies. The Mackies I have looked at already look like a dream but cost 2K for a set. Perhaps These will have to wait a lil bit

Thanks for all of your guys's help, what a great community here!

-Dash

i object to buying used computers period. especially a 1.5 year old laptop. when you say maxed out, what does that mean? software licenses aren't easily transferred and some licenses can't be transferred at all. you need to find out the specs on the laptop before we can help you out anymore. i'm sure it has firewire ports but does it have an express card slot? if not, then you can't use the RME Multiface. you could get a RME Fireface 400, however, because that is a firewire interface. it also has mic pres so you wouldn't need to buy a separate unit or mixer for that and it's the same price range as the Multiface. interface should absolutely be your first purchase but only after you know what the laptop features are. you can't go wrong with the motu 828 mk3 but the RME is a better interace.

as far as building cables, there are some decent tutorials around the web and youtube. it's pretty basic, you just need to do some soldering. you can still use the SM58S for studio stuff too. it's just really known to be a durable mic for live use. when you're buying all this stuff, do your research online as far as price. most equipment these days is priced evenly across the web. some good sites to look at are Sweetwater (price is ok, service is excellent), Audiomidi.com, jrrshop.com, musiciansfriend.com. stay away from guitarcenter.com because you'll end up paying sales tax on your purchases. that said, i get a lot of good deals when i go into guitar center and ask them to beat prices. they usually can go 10% lower than online retailers which makes up for the sales tax you would pay. for cables, shop fullcompass.com or redco.com as they have the best prices in those departments. redco will custom make cables for you and are still cheaper than pre-made cables using high quality parts and wire.

are you buying the speakers for live use or for studio use? if for studio use, then we've given you all the wrong choices.

[Dash]

This is what he claims:

"It is a 17" Macbook Pro 2.33 processor with a 500GB hard drive and 3Gb of ram. I have used it strictly for music editing but need a desktop machine. It is running the latest operating system 10.5.7. It is literally in mint condition. I have all that software included with the machine beacause I don't need it anymore. Also it will come with a back up battery and a extra power adapter. There will be a Booq sleeve and Incase backpack that will come with it."

3 GB DDR2 667MHz SDRAM (2 x 1GB) Max is 3GB
500GB 5400 RPM Hard Drive
17-inch (diagonal), 1680 x 1050 resolution, TFT widescreen
• ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM and dual-link DVI (Supports up to a 30" HD Display at 2560x1600)
• 8x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• One FireWire 400, one FireWire 800, three USB 2.0 ports, and Express Card/ 34 slot
• Built-in iSight camera, DVI, VGA (Requires DVI-VGA Adapter)
• Combined optical digital input/audio line in, combined optical digital output/headphone out, stereo speakers, microphone
• Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit Ethernet)
• Built-in 802.11 a, b, g and n Airport Extreme card (2.4GHz and 5GHz spectrum)
• Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
• Full-size back-lit illuminated keyboard with ambient light sensor, scrolling trackpad

I met him yesterday and he seems legitimate. He works for apple so I plan on meeting him tommarow at the apple store and I requested that they do a performance test to show me that everything is in working condition. The laptop looks brand new. He says it does have an express slot (I think I remember him claiming that the newer Macbook pros dont have express slot).

I will ask him about the licenses because he is saying that he will include Logic Pro 8 / Reason 4.

Im counting on the speakers for primarily live use but I dont have studio speakers. Is this a big problem? Im not really looking to make a full blown bedroom studio, just enough to get by for now.

[D K]

just wanted to add on the mackies suggested in the thread, they sound great, but you need to look at the weight...
those things are no joke weight-wise. over 100 lbs. a pop for anything above the 15+horn models.
an option to that, which i have used and sounds just as good with a serious decrease in weight, is the crown/ jbl prx series:
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/P ... d=12&MID=3
you are looking at around 40 lbs. less per box for the larger boxes...
i'd go ahead and use the speakers you get as an optional test source, but wouldn't really rely on them for a serious mixing reference..

[Tone Deft]

if he's looking to play out, the space he's playing in will have a PA, otherwise he should rent them and charge the place. I don't know why monitors are even being discussed.

yeah, good tip though, talk about buyer's remorse. "goddamn these speakers are heavy!! 3 gigs in one day, my back is killing me!"

[D K]

not every place available has usable pa, and it's nice to have a couple reliable monitors even if there is a pa available...
plus, if he wants to go into the woods or something (have you listened to his music?) and throw down,
it's that much easier. never hurts to be self contained, and not tied to funding/ clubs/ promoters/ $ all the time.
he is talking house parties etc.
rentals- rent three or four times, or just buy once.
if he buys, he can then rent to other groups on house multi band bills and pay for the gear quick.
(in this case spend an extra hundred bucks on a limiter to protect the stuff)

[McQ714]

i'm not a fan of Macs. never have been, probably never will be. so in that department, take someone else's advice. i have heard that Macbooks have serious battery problems.

with regards to interface, since you will have an express card slot, i would go with the RME multiface 2 with express card, but you will need to get a separate mic pre. for my multiface 2, i chose the focusrite octopre le with adat card. 8 mic pres with digital out to leave all of my 1/4" ins on the interface free for other stuff. i also have a 16-channel digital mixer with 4 more mic pres connected to my spdif input on the multiface 2. you can always get just a simple single or dual channel mic pre depending on your needs. something like the focusrite twin trak, or focusrite voicemaster pro, or presonus studio channel may be enough for your needs or RME makes a 4-channel mic pre for the Multiface 2 at about $600 i think. heard they are pretty good but it only has analog outs so it would take up (4) 1/4" ins on the multiface 2.

if you're going to be doing any sort of home studio stuff, i don't think you want to use the PA speakers for that. first off, they are too big and won't sound well in a smaller room. secondly, they take way too much juice to power them. get a smaller pair of powered monitors for your home stuff. of course the more expensive, the better in most cases, but you're not doing any mastering or producing really, right? so i would say get a pair for $200 to 300.

[Dash]

"first off, they are too big and won't sound well in a smaller room."

For now I will only be playing in smaller sized rooms and intimate settings. Eventually I will want a system that will knock peoples socks off but it wont be necessary yet.

"with regards to interface, since you will have an express card slot, i would go with the RME multiface 2 with express card, but you will need to get a separate mic pre. for my multiface 2, i chose the focusrite octopre le with adat card. 8 mic pres with digital out to leave all of my 1/4" ins on the interface free for other stuff. i also have a 16-channel digital mixer with 4 more mic pres connected to my spdif input on the multiface 2. you can always get just a simple single or dual channel mic pre depending on your needs. "

This seems like a very intense piece of equipment and right now I dont fully understand all the features and what I will be needing. Im just woundering, would it be worth it to go for the RME multiface 2 w/ express card and why so?

I appologize for being a newb.

[McQ714]

This seems like a very intense piece of equipment and right now I dont fully understand all the features and what I will be needing. Im just woundering, would it be worth it to go for the RME multiface 2 w/ express card and why so?

I appologize for being a newb.

sorry, i don't mean to overwhelm you at all. the multiface 2 has 18 ins consisting of eight 1/4" inputs, one spdif coaxial input, and one adat optical input. it also has 18 outs with the exact same connectors. it also has one midi i/o and one word clock i/o. you're probably not going to need the word clock i/o but it's there if you do. all analog connections are balanced with the possible exception of the headphone output which i'm not sure of and don't feel like reading up on it. the adat optical gives you the ability to connect this unit to another piece of digital equipment for expansion. i mentioned that i have the focusrite octopre le with a/d card. the way this is set up is that the octopre le has 8 mic pres that feed out of the a/d card and into the multiface 2 adat port, i also have the adat out of the multiface feeding back into the octopre le so that i may use the eight 1/4" outputs on the octopre as additional outs for my DAW. it's not as complicated at it may seem. so what i've got is a total of sixteen 1/4" outs and eight mic inputs with an additional eight 1/4" inputs (actually 16, because the octopre le has 8 line inputs on it's front as well as the 8 mic ins but i'm trying not to confuse anyone here).

the RME has solid drivers, high quality a/d d/a converters which translate to sound quality, expandibility. you won't be sorry but you will need to buy a couple of things to complete the package.

[Dash]

Ah makes sense for the most part. Thank you for the explination. For the time being im going to have to work around getting an interface if possible because it wouldn't leave me enough money to get a keyboard (which will greatly help me navigate Logic/Ableton) and a speaker setup. This is what I consider to be essential right now because even if I had the multiface I wouldn't have enough money to expand it/get the pres and I wouldn't be good enough at logic/ableton to impliment it.

Does this sound accurate?

I was looking at the Focal XS Satellite Speakers in the apple store(http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/pro ... MzgzNjg1Ng)
and from what I have read they could be perfect for my setup. Does anyone have any experience/advice on these speakers?

How about the keyboard?

I was looking at the Novation X-Station 61. It has two mic pres which could help me solve that problem.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XS61/

[Dash]

Any thoughts on the Focal XS Satellite setup or the Novation X-Station 61 for a keyboard setup?

[bosonHavoc]

well the x-station has a usb audio interface included.
its a pretty cool controller too
but we used to own one and we sold it because neither of us really liked it that much.
i didn't feel that the synth had anything special sound wise and some of the buttons where sticking a little.

i dont know about those speakers
for the audio interface look at used m-audio 4/10 or presonus firebox
you should be able to find either of those for around 200usd
and they should have ample i/o routings for starting out
or if you do decide on the x-station you can try that for a bit and see if it works