OT: Zoloft and anxiety/panic attacks

[fishmonkey]

There seems to be some kind of taboo about taking medication for mental health issues, especially long term. For any other medical condition (migraines, blood pressure etc) its not a problem, the doctor prescribes the pills and you take them. But when its a mental health issue most people don't like the idea of taking medication for it. Not sure why this is the case, but I was the same for a long time.

i'm not saying that meds are not useful for some people in some situations, but there are some pretty serious questions surrounding their over-prescription and ethical issues concerning the extremely lucrative and powerful pharmaceutical industry and it's relationships with psychiatrists and physicians...

philosophically, the biomedical model of mental disease and drug treatment (which is completely dominant in the US, and has been since the 80's) is based on the assumption that mental health issues are the result of faulty biochemical brain processes... mental illnesses were defined as discrete 'diseases' in the DSM-III (the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders of the American Psychiatric Association)using the medical disease model, but these definitions were not actually based on empirical evidence... the impact of a person's environment, upbringing, relationhips, culture, society, etc. are all downplayed in this model...

long-term use of meds is an issue because researchers do not know how these drugs actually work in the short-term, much less what their long-term effects are... most people would be shocked at the actual process of drug approval by the FDA...

this is good site to start with for some alternative info on psych drugs:

http://www.breggin.com/

[jonny72]

I'm in the UK and I get the impression there are major differences in the treatment of mental health issues compared to the USA.

There is definitely a big difference in the relationship between doctors and the pharmaceutical industry, mainly as a result of the NHS and centralised buying of medication in the UK. I've never had a single doctor refer to medication as a long term solution either. They all view it as a short term measure to help get things under control, whilst suggesting other forms of treatment - counselling, exercise, life style changes, etc.

Not sure I'd agree that they don't know the short / long term effects are or how the medications work. Most have been around for a long time and they have always known exactly what they do to the brain / body, though there are some questions over the long term effects of some.

But there are a lot of ifs, ands, buts and maybes when it comes to linking the route cause of mental health issues and the medications used to treat them and why (or why not) they work. There is a lot of assumptions and guess work, which often means trying different medications until one that works is found.

[fishmonkey]

I'm in the UK and I get the impression there are major differences in the treatment of mental health issues compared to the USA.

There is definitely a big difference in the relationship between doctors and the pharmaceutical industry, mainly as a result of the NHS and centralised buying of medication in the UK. I've never had a single doctor refer to medication as a long term solution either. They all view it as a short term measure to help get things under control, whilst suggesting other forms of treatment - counselling, exercise, life style changes, etc.

Not sure I'd agree that they don't know the short / long term effects are or how the medications work. Most have been around for a long time and they have always known exactly what they do to the brain / body, though there are some questions over the long term effects of some.

But there are a lot of ifs, ands, buts and maybes when it comes to linking the route cause of mental health issues and the medications used to treat them and why (or why not) they work. There is a lot of assumptions and guess work, which often means trying different medications until one that works is found.

it's definitely the most extreme in the US, where direct to consumer marketing is also legal (the US and New Zealand are the only two countries in the world where DTC marketing is allowed)...

in the US now, psychotherapy training is not even mandatory for psychiatrists...

unfortunately, although it is a common misconception, you are wrong in assuming that most psychotropic drugs have well known actions or effects... it's simply not true... yes, there are many theories about how or why particular drugs do what they do, but they are largely hypothetical...

the fact is that human consciousness and its relationship to the human brain (which is considered by some to be the most complex system we know) is very poorly understood...

here are some more links:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 72,00.html
http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... re-of.html
http://www.healyprozac.com/default.htm

[DrXparaMental]

There seems to be some kind of taboo about taking medication for mental health issues, especially long term. For any other medical condition (migraines, blood pressure etc) its not a problem, the doctor prescribes the pills and you take them. But when its a mental health issue most people don't like the idea of taking medication for it. Not sure why this is the case, but I was the same for a long time.

I think the important thing is to talk to your doctor and therapist (counsellor, psychiatrist or whatever) about it. Make sure you know what you are taking and why, talk about other options (different types of medication or other treatments) and ensure you're happy with how its being treated.

I've got an anxiety disorder and was on four different medications at one point as things got pretty messy. I've now pretty much got it under control but I've always got some valium on hand just in case and plan to for as long as I think I might need it - which is likely to be a very long time. The anxiety has made my life a nightmare for 20 years, I've now got it under control and don't want to rock the boat.

This is a tough call. Like fishmonkey states there is relatively little known about many SSRIs. The bigger picture however is that there is very little known about almost ALL currently prescribed pharmaceutical drugs. I mean, we NEED to get a great deal more "real" concerning the whole of mankind's scientific understanding. In reality, the known scientific edge is about 3 feet outside the cave so to speak and that puts most of the public in the mouth of the cave at best.

We human beings are hilarious. We like to think we are so advanced and accomplished with respect to understanding, when in reality, relatively speaking, 300 years from now will be no different than 300 years ago, progressively speaking.

Jonny, do you have any REAL understanding of what better than 50% of the patients who are prescribed valium, do as a result?

Valium is stone age shit my man. It's most likely the single most addictive and abused substance ever prescribed. Way not good stuff there bro.

[aisling]

[

in the US now, psychotherapy training is not even mandatory for psychiatrists...

craziness...... how tragic!

[stapum]

...

[robfoster]

I used to suffer with anxiety/panic attacks on a regular basis, but i was caning a lot of speed, pills, coke, weed you name it, i gradually gave up the class a's but i couldnt give up the weed, still im getting attacks, surely it cant be the weed causing it?, finally i gave up weed, the attacks stopped within 3 months, i think if you are susceptible to panic attacks, the worst thing you can do is smoke weed, the only thing that sets me off now is flying, so once a year before my holiday i get my doctor to prescribe me some diazepam, which really sorts me out, and its not a bad buzz either!

btw i think panic attacks are the worst thing ever, and i feel really bad for anyone who has had to experience them.

[DrXparaMental]

I used to suffer with anxiety/panic attacks on a regular basis, but i was caning a lot of speed, pills, coke, weed you name it, i gradually gave up the class a's but i couldnt give up the weed, still im getting attacks, surely it cant be the weed causing it?, finally i gave up weed, the attacks stopped within 3 months, i think if you are susceptible to panic attacks, the worst thing you can do is smoke weed, the only thing that sets me off now is flying, so once a year before my holiday i get my doctor to prescribe me some diazepam, which really sorts me out, and its not a bad buzz either!

btw i think panic attacks are the worst thing ever, and i feel really bad for anyone who has had to experience them.

EXTREME TRUTH in this post. Weed is a psychotropic no matter what anyone states to be different. When it comes to irrational fear (paranoia), hallucinations, schizophrenia and an over all screwed up mentality, smoking pot on a regular basis insures psychosis. Welcome to the funny farm.

If you are not an addcitive personality, once in a while though, 2-3 weeks in between getting stoned, is no big deal. Not for me however. It just has an insane half life.

[jonny72]

This is a tough call. Like fishmonkey states there is relatively little known about many SSRIs.

Jonny, do you have any REAL understanding of what better than 50% of the patients who are prescribed valium, do as a result?

Valium is stone age shit my man. It's most likely the single most addictive and abused substance ever prescribed. Way not good stuff there bro.

My understanding was that they know exactly what SSRIs do, ie the effect they have on the brain, but there is still some dispute about why and whether they do work for treating mental illness. Added to which is its difficult to know exactly what causes a persons illness, making the use drugs such as SSRIs a bit hit and miss.

I was on an SSRI for a while, came off it pretty quickly and never had any negative effects from it. I can't say the same about the trycyclic I was on, it got to the point where it was making me feel worse as I woke up every morning with a major hangover. But again, I came off that pretty quickly and without problems as well.

I'm aware that diazepam (ie valium) can be bad news, but again it hasn't been for me. Except for a very short period (a couple of weeks) I have always been on a low dosage and I went from taking it every day to only when I need it very quickly.

I've got my shit under control now and if staying like that means taking a diazepam every so often for the rest of my life then I'm more than happy with it. Its a lot better than having to deal with major anxiety attacks and totally losing the plot. But my doctor isn't just giving me a box of them and letting me get on with it, we're still discussing the best way to handle it long term but I'm pretty certain they'll be happy with my plan.

[macmurphy]

Has anyone felt that the psychiatric drugs took away their creativity? I've heard from alot of people that this is the case. I've been so stressed lately I feel like a I can't concentrate I'm hoping to score some aderall and I've heard some anti depressents help you focus more. I just hope it doesn't interfere with my motivation to make music.

I've found that meds i've been on in the past have stifled my creativity. I have bi-polar disorder,and have a tendency towards depression and panic attacks.
Before i took any meds i would go from days/weeks of extreme creativity and behaviour to days/weeks of no creativity and self harm and suicidal thoughts. Not good. It took three or four years of trying different meds before my psychiatrist and i found a combination that, to an extent at least, control my problems without making me feel emotionally numb. Sure, they have side effects such as weight gain and knocking me out 5-6 hours after i take them, and they'll never cure manic depression, but at least i'm no longer completely off the planet and i can be creative.

[ethios4]

I used to suffer with anxiety/panic attacks on a regular basis, but i was caning a lot of speed, pills, coke, weed you name it, i gradually gave up the class a's but i couldnt give up the weed, still im getting attacks, surely it cant be the weed causing it?, finally i gave up weed, the attacks stopped within 3 months, i think if you are susceptible to panic attacks, the worst thing you can do is smoke weed, the only thing that sets me off now is flying, so once a year before my holiday i get my doctor to prescribe me some diazepam, which really sorts me out, and its not a bad buzz either!

btw i think panic attacks are the worst thing ever, and i feel really bad for anyone who has had to experience them.

EXTREME TRUTH in this post. Weed is a psychotropic no matter what anyone states to be different. When it comes to irrational fear (paranoia), hallucinations, schizophrenia and an over all screwed up mentality, smoking pot on a regular basis insures psychosis. Welcome to the funny farm.

If you are not an addcitive personality, once in a while though, 2-3 weeks in between getting stoned, is no big deal. Not for me however. It just has an insane half life.

Thanks for this. I have been consuming heavily for over a decade and it's becoming clearer and clearer to me that it has a subtle but very real negative impact. Most everyone I try to talk with about this denies that there's any danger and tells me to stop blaming the weed, but come on....we smoke it for a reason - because it alters brain chemistry! It stands to reason there is a negative side to this! It's really good to hear others who agree.

[aisling]

I used to suffer with anxiety/panic attacks on a regular basis, but i was caning a lot of speed, pills, coke, weed you name it, i gradually gave up the class a's but i couldnt give up the weed, still im getting attacks, surely it cant be the weed causing it?, finally i gave up weed, the attacks stopped within 3 months, i think if you are susceptible to panic attacks, the worst thing you can do is smoke weed, the only thing that sets me off now is flying, so once a year before my holiday i get my doctor to prescribe me some diazepam, which really sorts me out, and its not a bad buzz either!

btw i think panic attacks are the worst thing ever, and i feel really bad for anyone who has had to experience them.

EXTREME TRUTH in this post. Weed is a psychotropic no matter what anyone states to be different. When it comes to irrational fear (paranoia), hallucinations, schizophrenia and an over all screwed up mentality, smoking pot on a regular basis insures psychosis. Welcome to the funny farm.

If you are not an addcitive personality, once in a while though, 2-3 weeks in between getting stoned, is no big deal. Not for me however. It just has an insane half life.

I am similar.......It was so hard to give up weed. Been smoking 20 years. I rationalized so many times that other things were worse.
Sadly I have an addictive personality, I finnaly understand the consequences of lifestyle habits!

[fishmonkey]

my attitude is that psychotropics are wonderful tools that have the ability to short-circuit your consciousness into different mental/emotional/spiritual states that your are already, in some latent way, capable of experiencing...

however, they also need to be treated with great respect for this ability, and not taken for granted...

when you get to the stage that you are hammering the same drug over and over, and not learning anything from the experience, you are in a pointless loop...

in one of the Carlos Castaneda books (can't remember which one), Carlos is asking Don Juan why he has to trip on Ayahuasca so often, whilst another student (who is progressing very well) has only tripped once... and Don Juan says something along the lines of "because you are stubborn and stupid"...

[alex.the.forge]

check out some of this guy's research

http://george-eby-research.com/html/dep ... xiety.html

he's done quite a bit of research into it and there seems to be a pretty strong link to magnesium deficiency

[aisling]

my attitude is that psychotropics are wonderful tools that have the ability to short-circuit your consciousness into different mental/emotional/spiritual states that your are already, in some latent way, capable of experiencing...

however, they also need to be treated with great respect for this ability, and not taken for granted...

when you get to the stage that you are hammering the same drug over and over, and not learning anything from the experience, you are in a pointless loop...

in one of the Carlos Castaneda books (can't remember which one), Carlos is asking Don Juan why he has to trip on Ayahuasca so often, whilst another student (who is progressing very well) has only tripped once... and Don Juan says something along the lines of "because you are stubborn and stupid"...

This is very true. Ram dass came to the same conclusion while timothy leary kept going....... Ram dass said that hallucinogenic are a great way to experience the divine, but once you experience it, the only way to maintain that relationship is through meditation and consciousness.......
The problem with weed (imho) is that my generation (gen x) was not taught to respect it, but that it could be used as a harmless crutch. SO while I read all the same don juan, dan millman, jung, tao of physics, Terence McKenna, joseph campbell, and other mystical books, I was reading them stoned and not respecting them. I guess I was reading for the knowledge, not the wisdom