Villalobos hating on Ableton

[[nis]]

I had to smile about the part in the "24-hours Berlin" documentary where he explained how extremely good his custom-built speaker system is and what a revelation it is to mix on it. The speakers looked great, but when he recorded some bleep sounds off his modular synth, he eventually found out that his spectrum analyzer displayed some frequencies that he couldn't hear at all. $50.000 well spent. Oh well...

[d-track]

villalobos is gay

[Slightlydelic]

villalobos is gay

too busy sucking his own dick for that i reccon.

[d-track]

villalobos is gay

too busy sucking his own dick for that i reccon.

maybe. but he took my advice!

[Johnisfaster]

i always laugh at shit like this. pure analog elitist i mean, dont they realize that once the music is pressed onto a CD its now nothing but ones and zeros?

So what you're saying is even if you take a real moog and run it through a fender twin reverb all miked up and run through an analog mixer compressed with tubes and recorded onto tape and eventually digitized onto cd that he may as well used a vst synth to begin with?

Just cause it ends up digital doesn't mean the the source doesn't matter.

[Bynar]

I think that this is the moment where Villalobos and the whole minimal crew jumped the shark so to speak. Creativity doesn't boil down to the gear you own. There is nothing "minimal" about this mindset at all. The debate between the sound engines of logic and ableton is about as nauseating as Villalobos and his boring 45 minute bleep tracks.

I used to be really into this genre about 6 years ago. Back in the nineties, minimal techno was all about doing more with less. Ricardo is just pissed about the fact that so many bedroom producers can easily replicate his sound armed with little more than ableton or reaktor patches. In fact, I've heard better producers using nothing more than fl studio and reason. I think this calls for a "minimal sucks" campaign!

[anybody human]

Shoot the messenger anyone?

I recently heard that the history of recorded music has always been a trade off between fidelity/sound quality and options/flexibility. The transition to magnetic tape, stereo to multitrack recording, analog to digital, CD to MP3 and on and on. Maybe Live's innovative workflow is just a continuation of that story.

He's not the only guy in the world who prefers the way records used to be made. A lot of people cherish the fidelity of music captured by a great engineer recording a great musician in a great room with great mics in a great studio mixed by a great mix engineer. What's wrong with struggling and yearning for the best possible sound? Nothing at all. I think what he's saying is not directed at us at home, it's directed to some professional musicians that he thinks aren't pushing themselves when they have the ability to go further with sound.

On DAW wars: I love Ableton. The workflow inspires and fosters creativity. At the moment that's what I'm focused on. I don't know about Logic but I've heard engineers say he is correct. I own Pro Tools, I prefer Ableton but there's no doubt that Pro Tools sounds better (that's all it does). I hate to say it but it is noticeable. Not terrible but noticeable. I hope that changes someday soon but I still love Live. Maybe this is a lame example but look at your magazines. See many people tracking or mixing in Ableton? No. They sequence in Ableton. They track and mix in Pro Tools or Logic. On the other hand you can make great music on a four track with a ukelele and a kazoo if the song is amazing and to me that's the bottom line.

[d-track]

i always laugh at shit like this. pure analog elitist i mean, dont they realize that once the music is pressed onto a CD its now nothing but ones and zeros?

So what you're saying is even if you take a real moog and run it through a fender twin reverb all miked up and run through an analog mixer compressed with tubes and recorded onto tape and eventually digitized onto cd that he may as well used a vst synth to begin with?

Just cause it ends up digital doesn't mean the the source doesn't matter.

who the fuck cares? seriously.
take analog photos, use moog synths, do some coke and think of you are the best and encapsule yourself into the future. there you will be even more unique.
how cool

[Bizon]

What a loser!

I never liked his crap anyway.

[leedsquietman]

Pro Tools / Logic / Cubase /Samplitude / Live - they sound the SAME.

Do a null test and you will find this out for yourself. I have extensively used Logic, PTHD as well as Cubase and Logic.

Same raw audio, no fader adjustments, same pan law, NO PLUGINS. IT SOUNDS THE SAME.

People still go by placebo/correctional bias effect and half truths from 7 years ago, when everyone has upgraded their audio engines at least twice since.

People mix in other DAWS for secondary reasons. I tend to mix in Cubase because I prefer it's mixer GUI, and it supports dual monitors better than Live, plus it has some extra PLUGINS I like (such as the Reverence convolution reverb). I will vouch unequivocally though that the mix quality otherwise is THE SAME. Not just my opinion. The other reason people diss Live's audio quality is because of warping. People don't take that into account - turn warping OFF and it's THE SAME.

You might want to educate some people on this. This is the consensus of most people who have used Live plus any other DAW for a period of time. MOst studio engineers are just hung up on the myths of 'pro tools' = industry standard, so MUST be the best. That is old school thinking which = FAIL. Just like this Villalobo guy = FAIL.

[d-track]

agree.
the past years he made pure crap.
he realized a 14 year nerdboy can reproduce the same crap with a laptop with some warez.
embarrassing.
and this interview is more embarrassing than his crap.
fall of a legend.

im out.

[anybody human]

Pro Tools / Logic / Cubase /Samplitude / Live - they sound the SAME.

Do a null test and you will find this out for yourself. I have extensively used Logic, PTHD as well as Cubase and Logic.

Same raw audio, no fader adjustments, same pan law, NO PLUGINS. IT SOUNDS THE SAME.

People still go by placebo/correctional bias effect and half truths from 7 years ago, when everyone has upgraded their audio engines at least twice since.

People mix in other DAWS for secondary reasons.

I hear what your saying. You're probably right, I would think you should technically be right. Still, I'm not following the "industry standard" or the "pros use it" logic. Enough with that already. This forum is filled with defensive reactions to perceived injustices from so called cliches. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm just going by my own experience and engineers I know, as well as interviews I've read. I still can't be sure though, I'm not experienced enough. I think you hit the nail on the head though, it's probably more for secondary reasons than the mix bus summing. In the end, a big release goes through so many more incarnations that how would I know? For example, maybe it's written and sequenced in Live- tracked and rough mixed in Logic- then taken to a killer studio with ridiculous plug ins and outboard gear, mixed in PTHD with an experienced engineer, then mastered by a legendary gangster.

[anybody human]

For what it's worth, what kind of clock, A/D converters and preamps etc. make a huge difference. I've met people who swear the interface's time clock is almost paramount.

[leedsquietman]

Exactly - Most people with Pro Tools rigs have a nice armoury of Waves or McDSP etc. TDM plugins to go with it.

Logic has things such as Space Designer and Waveburner, plus supports dual monitors better, which make it a better choice for mixing in.

It's usually plugins and other features such as the better dual monitor support which leads to people going outside of Live for mixing. The summing in Live 7 and 8 is fine if warping is off.

For sure, all of the above make a very tangible difference. That is determined by the sound card and/or any external converters such as Lavry/Mytek/Benchmark/Lynx (which are usually better than most consumer soundcard converters) and clocks such as Apogee Big Ben or Antelope Antelope isochronous etc make a difference. Pres are also HUGE (in the case of pres, anything miced, but if you are recording all virtual instruments inside the box then obviously, it's not an issue).

[anybody human]

Right on. Good info. There's a company from Chicago called Black Lion Audio that do mods, redo crappy Digidesign 00 hardware etc. Their clock/preamps/converters are supposed to be up there with Apogee even. Something I've been thinking about doing.