Ableton Forum

So the jitter functionality might just be a performance issue. If it just works that should be good enought. I don't think anything has been integrated this way in any other software. I can only begin to think about the audio/visual performance that will come out of that.

Machinesworking wrote:

tempus3r wrote:Actually I am shocked this is only 299. You're getting all of the Max/MSP/Jitter objects for only 300 bucks. Normally that is 700 bucks!

Though Jitter is more like an add on that even the developers aren't sure how it will run through/in Live, at least according to this from Cycling 74 here:
http://www.cycling74.com/special/maxforlive

Is Jitter included in Max for Live?
The development of Max for Live has focused on audio and MIDI applications, but we have no plans to prevent the use of Jitter output in Live. You'll be able to create devices that open their own windows to show images created with Jitter. Since Cycling '74 does not have complete control over the Live environment we are unable to predict if Jitter performance in Live will be comparable to its performance in Max.
It's likely that there will be some crippling of Jitter output while editing in Max for Live unless you own the Max/MSP/Jitter bundle.

Not disagreeing about the price being fair at all though! and I'm going to take advantage of whatever Jitter functions I can for sure! I'm happy, even if Pluggo owners receive a tiny discount, at least we get a discount?

d-track wrote:

cutoutcollective wrote:Anyone know if there'll be an educational discount? The edu prices haven't been updated yet...

crap.
i have suite 8 edu and max/msp/jitter 5 edu and the edu price (79) is the same as for non edus ?
thats not right.
40-50 would be acceptable

and on top of that what about not-current max user students?? i have to pay $299 for max for live where the educational version of max/msp is $250?? where's the incentive?!

Definitely +1 for max4live educational, and a lite version...$300 is just too much for the casual user who probably just want's to utilize other peoples creations. Why do almost all companies favour US customers in terms of price? They get everything cheap! Are we supposed to be comparatively richer in the uk? Lol

paradiddle wrote:So the jitter functionality might just be a performance issue. If it just works that should be good enought. I don't think anything has been integrated this way in any other software. I can only begin to think about the audio/visual performance that will come out of that.

Machinesworking wrote:

tempus3r wrote:Actually I am shocked this is only 299. You're getting all of the Max/MSP/Jitter objects for only 300 bucks. Normally that is 700 bucks!

Though Jitter is more like an add on that even the developers aren't sure how it will run through/in Live, at least according to this from Cycling 74 here:
http://www.cycling74.com/special/maxforlive

Is Jitter included in Max for Live?
The development of Max for Live has focused on audio and MIDI applications, but we have no plans to prevent the use of Jitter output in Live. You'll be able to create devices that open their own windows to show images created with Jitter. Since Cycling '74 does not have complete control over the Live environment we are unable to predict if Jitter performance in Live will be comparable to its performance in Max.
It's likely that there will be some crippling of Jitter output while editing in Max for Live unless you own the Max/MSP/Jitter bundle.

Not disagreeing about the price being fair at all though! and I'm going to take advantage of whatever Jitter functions I can for sure! I'm happy, even if Pluggo owners receive a tiny discount, at least we get a discount?

On Jitter - www.ableton.com/maxforlive states the following under "Key Features": Supports video synthesis and animation via "Jitter" objects

So we know it works from the beta, and now we know it's supported. So that's a fuck ton of capability for half off retail price. And btw, that 700 full Max/MSP/Jitter doesn't include the live.* API objects I think.

So that's half off for MORE functionality.

I agree. I originally though it would be priced a bit higher.

... but I won't be buying it for at least 6 months anyways...
some of the reasons :
1. I have too many expences lately..
2. I hardly have enough time to make music anymore...
fuck if I'm gonna spend all the weekend patching cables with a mouse...
3.during the M4L beta testing I've had os crashes pretty often.. it also made live sloooow at some points..I got the 'feeling' this setup isn't very stable...
it still felt like 2 programs 'patched' together.. and not like a 'complete environment' withing live...
instead I got the feeling I'm working on 2 seperate programs.. only dependent on one another... which is not a good thing.
4. it's surprising to me that LIVE USERS ..especially 'Suite' owners... (which have bough the FULLEST version of live)... don't get a discount(at least)... but I accept that.
5. support.. not clear which support you should contact when there's a problem (cycling/ableton)?! although both are excellent..
6. up until 2 weeks ago.. there was minimum documentation on the M4L side of MAX...
also the limits of some objects/modules were unclear... (for examp. send~ / receive~)
7. NO SYSEX ! unless it's over OSC... that's just ridicoulous...
8. I'm a bit dissapointed about the 'hype'... Ableton anounced M4L at the beginning of the year AS IF it was coming out with L8...after a hype that was built for more than a year before that...when they anounced their collaboration...
now I'm all for releasing 'stable' software even if it costs more beta testing and more time...
but like L7/L8 I get a feeling that's not the case here...
it seems theive gotten used to selling their chickens before they've hatched out the egg..

now.. I am tre Fanboi...
I have no doubt in my mind that I will buy it eventually...MAX is elegant and full of fun
but only when this collab has matured enough...
and is stable...

btw Happy 10th anniversary Ableton... you're still the GREATEST and most innovative ...
you are a brand to be proud of ... and I'm happy to be one in your talented 'community'...
keep on rocking !

3dot... wrote: 8. I'm a bit dissapointed about the 'hype'... Ableton anounced M4L at the beginning of the year AS IF it was coming out with L8...after a hype that was built for more than a year before that...when they anounced their collaboration...
now I'm all for releasing 'stable' software even if it costs more beta testing and more time...
but like L7/L8 I get a feeling that's not the case here...
it seems theive gotten used to selling their chickens before they've hatched out the egg..

Was ranting about this just the other day...Live8 blew us away w/ the announcement of M4L & Share...Here we are 1 year later and M4L is just being released & Share---well---I dunno what the hell to think about Share. Watch em' change their minds & it'll require Live9 But all that behind, I'm not bitching. Live has revolutionized the way we work in the studio & in the bedroom. I never imagined years ago I would find myself so content working within computer audio.

For the record---stop the bitching. $300 bucks? Gimmie a break... Months down the road once you see how many patches & fun shit their is to play w/ you'll wonder wtf was Ableton thinking trying to sell a FM synth for $120 when I invested only $300 & now I have a hundred FM synths to play with--a hundred effects--a hundred variations of sequencers---the list goes on. Do the friggn' math people, the deal is a no-brainer---no matter if your programming or just playing.

Acid303 wrote:Definitely +1 for max4live educational, and a lite version...$300 is just too much for the casual user who probably just want's to utilize other peoples creations. Why do almost all companies favour US customers in terms of price? They get everything cheap! Are we supposed to be comparatively richer in the uk? Lol

We are on average. Plus we pay more tax and stuff.

$299 is exactly what I expected and what I'm willing to spend. Less than 50% of what a standalone version of Max/Msp/Jitter costs. A cheaper, runtime-based version would be nice, though.

reaktor costs more than this and it doesnt do HALF the shit M4L can. jesus christ what a bunch of crybabies some of you are

Messaged Ableton regarding student discounts on Max for Live.

Thanks for your interest in Max for Live.

Ableton is proud to support students and teachers by offering educational discounts on full-featured, upgradeable versions of Live.

These discounts however, do not extend to Max for Live.

Android Bishop wrote:reaktor costs more than this and it doesnt do HALF the shit M4L can. jesus christ what a bunch of crybabies some of you are

yes but max is very slow.
reaktor is about 2 times faster than max, but it doesnt support video (unless you are into coding)

Android Bishop wrote:reaktor costs more than this and it doesnt do HALF the shit M4L can. jesus christ what a bunch of crybabies some of you are

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OxEQLE/
yeah... and that's just an eq

please keep in mind.. that most development environments are free..
that being said ... there's still no 'easier' alternative way to interface with live's API...
THAT.. plus the fact that max5 is very intuitive and so instantly rewarding are the strong points...
and it will add massive ammount of power to us users...
still...I'll probly be a late adopter this time around...

I didn't think you need M4L to run max patches in live. Only need it if you want to create / edit patches. Think I saw that C74 are going to stop selling a max runtime in favour of hosting the runtime in Live.

i can understand people not having 300 dollars to spend on this, and that being the reason for not purchasing

but people who say that its not worth the money or that max is too difficult so they would only use others creations

that blows my mind, firstly, i am certain that even without you yourself doing any programing, in 3 monthes there will be clones of thousands dollars worth of VSTs/AUs made inside M4L

second, max is easy, every object has a help file, me being excited about M4L, i downloaded the max 5 demo to see what i could create, after 1 day i had usable functional midi generation tools

i am pondering purchasing max 5 edu since it will only be 50 dollars more for both with the crossgrade than just purchasing M4L

setskip wrote:I didn't think you need M4L to run max patches in live. Only need it if you want to create / edit patches. Think I saw that C74 are going to stop selling a max runtime in favour of hosting the runtime in Live.

they discontinued pluggo, not the max runtime (which is free)

no where have i read patches will work without M4L