[ot]: How afraid are you of the future?

[stringtapper]

The past and the future are both illusions.
There is only now.

Time itself is an illusion, an illusion we create for ourselves based on our perception.

Agreed.

The present is fleeting, all we have is our memory of what has passed and our anticipation of what's to come. So the present is an illusion as well. We cannot truly perceive "now-ness" because in effect all we are doing is remembering things that have passed, albeit things that may have passed within microseconds.

So would you say that for example, infra red light or the proton don't exist because you lack the ability to perceive them?

No I wouldn't, because those are physical objects. The unaided human eye may lack the ability to perceive them, but if one has access to the proper equipment, then one can perceive them. Because those who do have access to the proper equipment have observed them then I am comfortable with believing they exist.

The present on the other hand is a state, or a concept. To be pedantically semantic about it, yes the present does exist as a concept. But I believe it is a much less tangible concept than the concepts of future and past, where we can attribute relatively clear perceptual processes to how we conceive of them. But the present is not so easily quantified. Where exactly do we measure the boundaries between future and present and past and present? At what point does what we perceive to be our immediate experience actually become our remembrance of our experience? Can immediate experience really exist, or do we experience everything through our memory?

Ok, sorry, I'm going too far afield now.

[stringtapper]

If the future is going to be anything like Fallout 3, then bring it on!!!

you (we all) have to take a bit to watch this, then:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/a ... ideo_games

That was classic!

[SubFunk]

@ Grandmasterbird


i totally get it. but i also see it a bit as an excuse to say... "i think that people are products of their environment so I do not think the young people are to blame, but more the world around them." because my point is that they are as much the creators as anyone else, especially in wealthy and educated societies where it is so much easier to create a good environment, but they became lazy of contributing to changes. cause for that you need to use your head.


my2cents.

[smartass303]

^ ok, so options for "terrified, didn't you see the pics of the Bat Boy??" and "too zen to worry about it dude" were options I missed.

the only thing that scares the hell out of me is the ultra fast and massive increase of stupid and uneducated people in wealthy countries.

i am particular speaking of my country, i was nearly 11 years abroad without interruption and the development within society here scares me to death!

does it seem to you like the primary object has become to grab as much as possible, where thinking about making a better world is far down the list?

sort of, people seem to not care about 'beautiful' things anymore, i mean culture & art & philosophy, etc. and about important issues regarding a society like politics and economy and the care of the planet therefor our self respect...
only grabbing as much as possible, accumulating 3 dimensional items rather then feeding the head with knowledge and beauty.

+1
the occasional youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID4lstARK0w

303

[necho]

If the future is going to be anything like Fallout 3, then bring it on!!!

you (we all) have to take a bit to watch this, then:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/a ... ideo_games

Brilliant!

[Grandmasterbird]

@ Grandmasterbird


i totally get it. but i also see it a bit as an excuse to say... "i think that people are products of their environment so I do not think the young people are to blame, but more the world around them." because my point is that they are as much the creators as anyone else, especially in wealthy and educated societies where it is so much easier to create a good environment, but they became lazy of contributing to changes. cause for that you need to use your head.


my2cents.

I hear what you are saying but I disagree that they are the creators of the world around them. They are a part of it, and go some way to shape it, but I do not think they create it- they are born into it. Generally speaking young people dont have a lot of power and influence because of how society views their social standing i.e. they are young, possibly have little money, possibly have no job. Therefore in the eyes of society they have little or no 'status'.

Being part of a society that views you in this way would, as it no doubt has, breed contempt and a disinterest in making a contribution.

On the other hand there are young people who go out of their way to make positive contributions and do some amazing things for their communities.

Anyhow, I am babbling on and of course I would be taking this point of view- that's why I do what I do!!

Hmmmm, gone off on a bit of a tangent to the original post I think....

[ethios4]

i totally get it. but i also see it a bit as an excuse to say... "i think that people are products of their environment so I do not think the young people are to blame, but more the world around them." because my point is that they are as much the creators as anyone else, especially in wealthy and educated societies where it is so much easier to create a good environment, but they became lazy of contributing to changes. cause for that you need to use your head.

Exactly. We are all products and creators. Actually, I'm inclined to say that this philosophy of externalizing blame and avoiding responsibility is something that has increased dramatically recently, and is part of the problem. I got an email from the Drug Policy Alliance a few days ago talking about the how the lack of a syringe-exchange program in the US was the cause of syringe-users getting HIV/AIDS. Umm, sorry, the cause of syringe-users getting HIV/AIDS is their choice to use dirty syringes.

All we really have in life is our power of personal choice...how we react in our heads. Blaming anything other than ourselves for our choices is voluntarily relinquishing the only power we really have.

[squelcht]

Winter solstice 2012: The sun never returns back to its habitual path and starts anew...

[twisted-space]

The present on the other hand is a state, or a concept. To be pedantically semantic about it, yes the present does exist as a concept. But I believe it is a much less tangible concept than the concepts of future and past,

You believe that something that hasn't yet happened (and therefore may not ever happen) is more tangible than what is happening now?

Where exactly do we measure the boundaries between future and present and past and present?

How can you measure boundaries that don't exist?

At what point does what we perceive to be our immediate experience actually become our remembrance of our experience? Can immediate experience really exist, or do we experience everything through our memory?

I believe that we experience things as they happen. I also believe that we can train ourselves to be more (or less) aware and so to experience more (or less) of what is happening.

Do people with amnesia not experience anything, or do they just not remember the experience?

Ok, sorry, I'm going too far afield now.

Yeah, me too.

[SubFunk]

Actually, I'm inclined to say that this philosophy of externalizing blame and avoiding responsibility is something that has increased dramatically recently

spot on.

that is THE problem.

as an example from here (germany) i can freak out if i hear discussions going on about parents complaining that teachers 'teaching' kids not enough about general life, in particular social behaviour, etc.

damn me, that is the responsibility of parents not teachers, teachers are there to teach how to count 1 and 1 together and how to spell, etc.
but a hell lot of general human wisdom should be transported through the parents... and there they run away from their responsibility.
and well, blame others... bullshit.

[stringtapper]

The present on the other hand is a state, or a concept. To be pedantically semantic about it, yes the present does exist as a concept. But I believe it is a much less tangible concept than the concepts of future and past,

You believe that something that hasn't yet happened (and therefore may not ever happen) is more tangible than what is happening now?

You're question is based on the assumption that we agree the present exists, and that a "now" can be perceived as more than anticipation and remembrance. I would agree that the concept of the past would be more tangible than the concept of the future because the future is only our anticipation of events rather than a remembrance of events.

Where exactly do we measure the boundaries between future and present and past and present?

How can you measure boundaries that don't exist?

The very fact that we give these states names creates conceptual boundaries between them.

At what point does what we perceive to be our immediate experience actually become our remembrance of our experience? Can immediate experience really exist, or do we experience everything through our memory?

I believe that we experience things as they happen. I also believe that we can train ourselves to be more (or less) aware and so to experience more (or less) of what is happening.

Do people with amnesia not experience anything, or do they just not remember the experience?

Because a standard definition of "experience" is "the practical contact and observation of facts or events" I would say that it would be rather questionable to consider someone with no memory of an event to be considered to have experienced it. As outsiders we could observe that the event did indeed occur and that the amnesiac was involved, but experience is dependent on consciousness and therefore memory.

Ok, sorry, I'm going too far afield now.

Yeah, me too.

Hey it's all OT anyway

[twisted-space]

You're question is based on the assumption that we agree the present exists, and that a "now" can be perceived as more than anticipation and remembrance. I would agree that the concept of the past would be more tangible than the concept of the future because the future is only our anticipation of events rather than a remembrance of events.

Prick your finger with a pin. Try to anticipate the pain before it happens, try to remeber the pain after it has happened. Unless you are very unusual you'll only experience the pain when it happens and the memory will fade as quickly as the pain.

The very fact that we give these states names creates conceptual boundaries between them.

Conceptual boudaries are as insubstantial as conceptual states.

Because a standard definition of "experience" is "the practical contact and observation of facts or events" I would say that it would be rather questionable to consider someone with no memory of an event to be considered to have experienced it. As outsiders we could observe that the event did indeed occur and that the amnesiac was involved, but experience is dependent on consciousness and therefore memory.

I would refer you to the pin prick example above. If they react to the pain then they experience it, even if they don't remeber the experience.
Consciousness does not depend on memory, only awareness.

[knotkranky]

Make your poll choice carefully...

because whatever you choose will manifest.

It's kinda dumb to pick a future that sucks, right?

[doctah x]

go to you tube, search 'sarah palin book sighnig; cols ,Oh" these folk scare me, sad as they are, plus i live in ilumbus

[Grandmasterbird]

We are all products and creators.

Yes. In my opinion we start out as products then we grow, and as we develop, our ideas and behaviours change and we contribute and therefore become 'creators'.

Actually, I'm inclined to say that this philosophy of externalizing blame and avoiding responsibility is something that has increased dramatically recently, and is part of the problem.

Agreed. Part of the work I do with young people involves encouraging them to take responsibility. However, to find solutions to a problem we must first look at the causes, and get people to understand why they do what they do.

I would imagine that this may look to some people like 'excusing' people for their behaviour. I also think that there is a danger that people can sometimes cotton onto this and use their situations as a way of excusing their behaviour, and therefore externalise blame.

as an example from here (germany) i can freak out if i hear discussions going on about parents complaining that teachers 'teaching' kids not enough about general life, in particular social behaviour, etc.

damn me, that is the responsibility of parents not teachers, teachers are there to teach how to count 1 and 1 together and how to spell, etc.
but a hell lot of general human wisdom should be transported through the parents... and there they run away from their responsibility.
and well, blame others... bullshit.

Definately. Parents have a major role to play. When I said people are products of their environment, this was one of the factors I was referring to.