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Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:59 am
by aisling
mr.ergonomics wrote:
Furthermore I have to correct myself, I think there are genres which are ok for improvisation. Ambient music or drone music is one for example!
Yes the spacemen 3 comes to mind......."an evening of contemporary sitar music"
and anything by ravi shankar or other classical ragas....
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:19 am
by mr.ergonomics
mikemc wrote:mr. e, do you have a link to an example of the type of stuff you're referring to?
yeah I like that for example:
http://sphericlounge.blogspot.com/
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:04 am
by q.musgrove
leisuremuffin wrote:you guys have it all figured out, don't you?
saying that you "hate improvised music" is one of the most vague, close minded, and just plain old fucking stupid things i've ever read on this forum. And that's hard to do.
.lm.
Plain old fucking stupid indeed. But then again, I'm partial to the improvisation. I get paid to improvise in many different projects and with one band, the people who don't know can't believe the band has never rehearsed a song before because we are absolutely writing it in real time.
Sage wrote:Used to play in a band where shows were predominately improvised. We never sold ourselves on it ever because we were just being lazy and could get away with it.
Improvising is just pick up an instrument and start playing notes, not difficult at all.
wrong, and I'd love to hear your definition of "getting away with it".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYKpmwzSjM
from three minutes on it is a improvisation based on the squarepusher tune that is being played. The guitar player and I have been playing for 5/6 years and we were having a conversation in this video that is improvised, all those changes at the end and all. Oh yeah, and we can still play parts. Did I mention I was partial!?
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:31 am
by pepezabala
Improvised music is like quantum physics. You never know what to expect, but the whole universe tics that way.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:53 am
by starving student
q.musgrove wrote:leisuremuffin wrote:you guys have it all figured out, don't you?
saying that you "hate improvised music" is one of the most vague, close minded, and just plain old fucking stupid things i've ever read on this forum. And that's hard to do.
.lm.
Plain old fucking stupid indeed. But then again, I'm partial to the improvisation. I get paid to improvise in many different projects and with one band, the people who don't know can't believe the band has never rehearsed a song before because we are absolutely writing it in real time.
Sage wrote:Used to play in a band where shows were predominately improvised. We never sold ourselves on it ever because we were just being lazy and could get away with it.
Improvising is just pick up an instrument and start playing notes, not difficult at all.
wrong, and I'd love to hear your definition of "getting away with it".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiYKpmwzSjM
from three minutes on it is a improvisation based on the squarepusher tune that is being played. The guitar player and I have been playing for 5/6 years and we were having a conversation in this video that is improvised, all those changes at the end and all. Oh yeah, and we can still play parts. Did I mention I was partial!?
why are you guys acting like thats what the op is talking about when its obvious that he's not talking about improv based on a famous song wtf???, what exactly are you guys defending cause he's not even talking about that?
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:06 am
by pepezabala
mr.ergonomics wrote:I think 98% of the so called one men 'DJing' is boring as hell.
fixed
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:34 am
by cubehog
I think stringent compositions are supposed to be the core of a musical piece, the real meat. You can put something around this core or just leave it the way it is.
I sometimes like the interaction of the musicians in a live-environment when they go into a different, unknown direction. But when I am at home I am
more into the "focussed" version of a song. And yes, a track/song based on a timeline and clear sequencing. With a followable narration and intention of
the musicians. That´s probably why so many improv-records sound not so exciting. Because there isn´t a real thought/concept behind it.
First a subject needs to be learnt and understood, then it gets down to your guts, so you wouldn´t have to think about the specific tasks.
From driver´s school to your driver´s license. In music terms, playing the right frequencies/notes at the right time is the aim.
That´s a process taking years of consequent and thorough practice. That´s why I wouldn´t compare the CIMA cover against a glitch/random [k]no(o)b twiddler.
I am not so astonished by random pieces either, so I am with the op here. There´s often a pretencious, elitist attitude on the package while the content is pretty lame in the end.
I guess, it´s one sign of our times that "artists" get away with it.
der Ivo
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:28 am
by starving student
cubehog wrote:I think stringent compositions are supposed to be the core of a musical piece, the real meat. You can put something around this core or just leave it the way it is.
I sometimes like the interaction of the musicians in a live-environment when they go into a different, unknown direction. But when I am at home I am
more into the "focussed" version of a song. And yes, a track/song based on a timeline and clear sequencing. With a followable narration and intention of
the musicians. That´s probably why so many improv-records sound not so exciting. Because there isn´t a real thought/concept behind it.
First a subject needs to be learnt and understood, then it gets down to your guts, so you wouldn´t have to think about the specific tasks.
From driver´s school to your driver´s license. In music terms, playing the right frequencies/notes at the right time is the aim.
That´s a process talking years of consequent and thorough practice. That´s why I wouldn´t compare the CIMA cover against a glitch/random [k]no(o)b twiddler.
I am not so astonished by random pieces either, so I am with the op here. There´s often a pretencious, elitist attitude on the package while the content is pretty lame in the end.
I guess, it´s one sign of our times that "artists" get away with it.
der Ivo
yeah I mean why cloud the issue, nobody is talking about prince who probably never plays the same song the same way twice, or people who jam out aphex songs or whatever he's taking aobut the glitch/random [k]no(o)b twiddler, and not about the ones who make songs doing that but the ones who don't. I've seen people sneer at other artist because they actually played a song that they didn't make up on the spot that's rediculous. there's alot of cats who throw on a bunch of drumloops and glitch it out and wash it out with effects who think a song is fading the volume out, and even that could be but damn if I loved it you couldn't do it again
its definitly music but it's not recallable, it's like this dude the other day who was raggin on me cause I was contemplating a juno 60 for the patch memory and he was like man real synthheads don't need no patch memory hahahah and i was like mofo listen here i aint no synth head i need some patch memory or an even better example. who wants to hear some rapper freestyle if he isn't making any damn sense, it's the fact taht he's making sense that makes the freestyle dope.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:10 am
by madlab
Korhan wrote:What I mean by free improvisation is not a 'way of making music' but a genre and it's generally an acoustic/electric music, with some very good electronics in it as well. Some relevant names: Peter Bröztmann, Evan Parker, Michel Doneda, Han Bennink, John Zorn and many more... so I don't think he means that!
i think you're right. By the way, the ink to your music on lastfm doesn't work.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:52 am
by D K
perhaps the problem with the type of music the op is talking about is that it falls into the category of
music that is fun to play, not fun to be an audience for (unless, perhaps, you are rolling and anything is ok).
there's a lot of that at shows these days, and some excellent examples linked here (ahem...)
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:03 pm
by chapelier fou
Start your linear sequencer and bring something to perfection.
That's really what I hate in most of electronic music.
I may be fascist, but using an arrangement in live is just like pissing on the audience.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:40 pm
by davepermen
chapelier fou wrote:Start your linear sequencer and bring something to perfection.
That's really what I hate in most of electronic music.
I may be fascist, but using an arrangement in live is just like pissing on the audience.
indeed. i was at nature one that year (again
). and f.e. armin van buren was totally boring, bringing a perfect mix with perfect produced music sounding just like a mixcd. it was BORING. perfection is boring, too.
on the other hand, deadmau5 made errors, was playing around, and had big fun up there, and so did we have. it was surprising, creative, sometimes random.
i don't go to a live gig to see perfection. but obviously, perfecting one's art is one goal anyways. but giving up every form of flexibility or "live", just to reach it, should not be a goal.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:48 pm
by chapelier fou
but giving up every form of flexibility or "live", just to reach it, should not be a goal
I am not convinced. For me a good gig is :
50% of good songs
30% of taking risks
20% of good mood.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:53 pm
by davepermen
chapelier fou wrote:but giving up every form of flexibility or "live", just to reach it, should not be a goal
I am not convinced. For me a good gig is :
50% of good songs
30% of taking risks
20% of good mood.
30% taking risks = not giving up every form of flexibility or "live", just to reach perfection.
no matter how you misinterpreted what i wrote, i mean the same.
Re: I hate improvised music
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:11 pm
by Rabalder
If the music is good, thats great.
If it sucks, to bad..
If its improvised or not.. Who gives a shit?