Renoise finally comes of age and takes on Live & M4L???

[flowdesigner]

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What happens when Logic decides to introduce their version of Session ?
That would spell disaster for Live.

Reaktor for Logic

But, no one can challenge max in Live IMO.

[SubFunk]

But, no one can challenge max in Live IMO.

don't shout it out to loud, the environment in logic has been way, way ahead of it's time... there is always possibilities, this is exactly dangerous, riding the high horse... and i think this is what Live currently (since a little bit does.

of course M4L is wicked, no question, but there is still so much to iron out, very basic stuff, good warp algorithms that are usable and so on and so on...
before doing all the fancy stuff.

well, i think it would be enormously healthy if they get a fat slap in their face from a competitor.

[citizenchris099]

Yes! This looks awesome. I'm glad I haven't splurged for m4l yet...

Indeed.

Stability in a live setting is still a big question. But potentially they have just made Live redundant for me.

The reason I stopped using Renoise and committed to Live and the Launchpad was the lack of live performance potential in Renoise, and I got tired of rendering Renoise parts to audio and setting them up in Live. Looks like Renoise is back in the game!

YMMV, of course - nathannn's points will be very valid for a lot of Live users.

you described my situation w/renoise exactly. it got old. how awesome is the new beta??

[Leon Tricker]

you described my situation w/renoise exactly. it got old. how awesome is the new beta??

It's pretty feckin' good!

Someone on the Renoise forum has posted a free Renoise Step Sequencer for Launchpad. It has a few problems that need ironing out, but it is pretty amazing considering it is free.

[CR78]

I've only recently noticed that Sonar has introduced a 'matrix view', which, although flawed is essentially Session View.
Now that won't kill Live, but Session is still Live's only real differentiating facet. So now we have two applications which appear to have stepped up to challenge. Neither of them will really make a dent in Live's userbase but it indicates that the grace-period of non-competition is over. Other linear apps are going non-linear.

As far as other apps with alternatives to Live's session view, don't forget about NI Maschine:
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 4#p1011914
It's an awesome alternative to session view that allows recording automation into clips.

The differentiating and successful factor for Live has been the combination of the session view with elastic audio warping. Now that Logic is on board with the audio warping part, it would be pretty scary if Apple decides to take on its own version of matrix grid mode as well.

wouldnt be so scary imo
its very welcome:)

Me thinks it will happen.

[RajahP]

Anyone using Renoise with the Launchpad..can Renoise be rewired?

[HeadrickProductions]

So are folks liking renoise. The most important question seems to be that is it a stable program. I was so excited for max for live release date, and then I saw all the posts reviewing all the problems and crashes that folks were having with max for live(M4L). I am very insterested if the program does what it claims to. Thank you very much for bringing this to everyone attention.



If you have not worked bootsy collins x mas into your sets YA need too.

[delicioso]

can Renoise be rewired?

Yup, Renoise has rewire support. But if you sync Renoise and Live with a virtual midi bus like IAC or MIDI Yoke, it's even better since you can control Live's scenes directly from Renoise.

Stability in a live setting is still a big question. But potentially they have just made Live redundant for me.

I'm already having lots of fun jamming live with Renoise, triggering and scheduling Renoise pattern launches from Maschine's pads using the awesome Maschine Renoise template (http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 5#p1045795). And you're right, it's kinda crazy but I think I found a perfect setup now with Renoise 2.5 and Maschine that Live might be redundant the way it's looking, since I'd be tracking out to Logic or Reaper. I probably won't completely abandon Live but it's not looking good with the route Ableton chose to take with M4L pricing with no runtime and so forth instead of the more open models that developers like those of Renoise and Reaper are embracing.

[RajahP]

can Renoise be rewired?

Yup, Renoise has rewire support. But if you sync Renoise and Live with a virtual midi bus like IAC or MIDI Yoke, it's even better since you can control Live's scenes directly from Renoise.

Seem like there is only a drum step sequencer for Renoise...
How about something like this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeexnhGEJaE

[delicioso]

Seem like there is only a drum step sequencer for Renoise...

Not sure what you mean as that statement is not true at all. The entire Renoise pattern editor works like a step editor (but not only for drums) with some convenient features like quickling looping sections of a pattern with a click and also quickly switching those looping sections and how long that section should be.

How about something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeexnhGEJaE

Do you mean something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wfFZBNLEPg

[RajahP]

Forgive my ignorance...
Ok, say I want to use my Launchpad as a 'melodic step sequencer' to make basslines as the Novation step seq.
The Nova. step seq has a 'scale lock' which is very powerful, that's one of the more desired feature of m4l... But at $600...
Trying to find a work-around.

[newnumtwo]

2.6, the version that implements Lua scripting to extend Renoise, is finally out in beta: http://www.renoise.com/board/index.php?showtopic=25976

The initial "scripts" or "tools" can be found here: http://tools.renoise.com/
The scripting API, etc. is described here: http://scripting.renoise.com/

The initial tools look like boilerplate "here's a useful example of how to extend Renoise"-type stuff: pattern find & replace, an arpeggiator, custom pattern nav shortcuts, pattern split, sample slicer, note strum, etc., along with what looks like a graphical external controller editor, Duplex. No serious DSP yet, but apparently that's coming.

Looks like a monster release, with support for OSC, support for autoseek in long samples (something we take for granted in Live) and other assorted fixes in addition to the afore-mentioned scripting capabilities. As a long-time user of Renoise (since v.1.4), Live (since v.1) & Max/MSP (since v.4.0) my initial impression is that the scripting approach was a very appropriate implementation for Renoise's users, just as M4L's GUI patching paradigm was a very appropriate implementation for Live's users.

People will draw the inevitable comparisons on price, etc. but would miss the larger point: these are two very different products targeting different types of users. Renoise is more about precision control (and make no doubt about it, Renoise is the undisputed precision king), while Live is more about rewarding spontaneity and removing roadblocks to creativity (ditto Live's king-lyness in this regard).

Anyone who's electronic music making endeavors predate the millennium will agree with me when I say, the point isn't Renoise vs. Live, the point is we live in an amazing time for music-making when we have all these choices. If you ask me, Renoise & Live have much more in common with each other than they do with the Logics, ProTools & Cubases of the world: both are about smashing traditional paradigms and forging ahead with unique, distinct visions that stop trying to apply the old recording studio DAW technique to a compositional and performance process that is ill-rewarded by such an approach (and if Cubase didn't sound so perceptibly better than everything else, I might stop using it )

One may ask, Renoise/Lua or Live/M4L, and I reply (rhetorically): why choose?

[jrathkopf]

[quote="delicioso"][quote="RajahP"] The entire Renoise pattern editor works like a step editor (but not only for drums) with some convenient features like quickling looping sections of a pattern with a click and also quickly switching those looping sections and how long that section should be.

[quote="RajahP"]How about something like this?

Love this feature of Renoise, Live needs to implement a lock/unlock button for Follow Actions to match up.

I just posted this weekend a feature request for just this thing.

The lock/unlock button could affect all clips Globally, and possibly individual lock/unlock buttons for tracks. All midi assignable.

[leedsquietman]

Careful how you categorize 'Cubase sounds better'.

As someone who uses Live, Renoise and Cubase, I am happy to use any of them and mixdown in any of them.

I prefer Cubase 5 for mixing because of it's mixer, better dual monitor support and SOME PLUGINS such as Reverence and the VariAudio feature. But it's not really Cubase which 'sounds' better, it's Cubase's PLUGINS and GUI which make it a good choice for mixing.

[macmurphy]

Anyone who's electronic music making endeavors predate the millennium will agree with me when I say, the point isn't Renoise vs. Live, the point is we live in an amazing time for music-making when we have all these choices.

hear hear