poor API showcase?

Learn about building and using Max for Live devices.
Angstrom
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: poor API showcase?

Post by Angstrom » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:38 pm

Hi Gregory,
The large number of Live API examples that *are* included with Max for Live appear to represent an attempt to take those things into account. Perhaps the effect of doing that frightens off the programming-averse?
Please remember that some users have NO examples because we cannot actually try the application. There is no Demo for Live Suite owners.

My information on M4L is very out of date as it dates from my experience on the beta (which is now a little foggy in my memory). Examples only appeared in the final week of the beta.

During the Beta I had to learn enough Max to figure out how to query the API to surrender a list of class names, methods and properties. Getting to that point was quite some while after "hello world" it had all the fun of walking to Greece to see if there was a golden fleece there. I spend all day writing code, so in the evenings I'd prefer a little more user-friendliness. A little bit more WYSIWYG is just fine by me.

Please do not assume that customers are merely lazy, we are mainly pressed for time and overburdened with demands by multiple applications all claiming to be the UltimateCreativeSolution™. I quite like examples as carrots. I like helper objects, I like easiness.

My need is not "learn a programming language"
my need is "customise my music making, to make it easier to be creative"

During the Beta I had to learn enough Max to be able to write my own API crawler to try and find out if it could possibly do what I wanted it to. I would have preferred to see something like this object. LiveGET, along with a LiveSET
a dynamic select box object which accessed the API for me, reported the values so I could modulate them and then send them to a LiveSET() object
Image

perhaps this sort of thing already (now) exists.
It's a very expensive gamble to make to try and find out.

Examples do not have to be all singing all dancing, just helpful and indicative.

Gregory Taylor
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: poor API showcase?

Post by Gregory Taylor » Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:22 pm

That's an elegant interface - since your beta test life, there's an explorer-type patch out there at maxforlive.com that is a bit in the neighborhood. I like this better, myself - since I tend to think not of the giant list, but rather of things grouped by function. You might consider sharing these patches with others. If you'd like, I'd be happy to see if they require updating, etc.

Tone Deft
Posts: 24152
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: poor API showcase?

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:48 am

great topic, this has been bugging me. lots of great posts, thanks.

1. the Live API reference material should be up to snuff with the max help and manual. that's a high bar but they are now one product.

2. please consider that this is a music community, not a coders convention. I'm a hardware engineer, at times I write code for a living, I started at 12, but I'm no software engineer. even that difference puts me miles behind many of you guys. then consider the artists out there that got into m4L out of curiosity, zero programming experience, they never even thought about doing that stuff, but they have good intentions and vision. the Live API docs are something I'd push through for work but not at home in my spare time. the command structure in m4L isn't something normal people can just pick up on. I totally agree with grinding through it but max itself is a grind, the Live API stuff isn't as well documented and makes max steep learning curve a wall instead of a long uphill hike.

3. surely work on this will halt until the 'Quality' sticky is addressed. it has to be on the minds of many people at C74 and Ableton.

4. I'd love to find an API walker. I started one but started in the wrong direction and I have to return to Greece for that golden fleece. I'll also check out the link Gregory posted on the previous page. I would like a web page with a collection of links, even a sticky on this forum to hold us over until Ableton/C74 can get on this. the info does seem pretty scattered.

what do I want to do with it? I want to make a Live set then tickle it to see what pops up. all in good time, I have the rest of my life to figure this stuff out.

my long winded $0.02, this has been bugging me for a while. I love the area where science meets art and the people that make it happen. nurture this part of the community amazing things will happen.

edit -
Gregory, many thanks for these links which are also reachable in the help. :oops:
http://www.cycling74.com/docs/max5/vign ... e_api.html
http://www.cycling74.com/docs/max5/vign ... tions.html

sorry, I've been such a Live whore I haven't gotten into C74's groove~.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

rory
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:48 pm

Re: poor API showcase?

Post by rory » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:56 pm

Angstrom wrote: Image
These look really handy, nice work. Did you share them anywhere?

Angstrom
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: poor API showcase?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:11 pm

sorry,
I meant to post back here.

The image there is just a mock up of what I was half finished making. I'm a web developer by day and I think of interfaces and interactions mainly by creating a mockup Photoshop. So, that's a photoshop mock-up. The real thing only got so far before I decided that the effort wasn't worth the outcome. IE: I realised that there wasn't enough enticement in the LiveAPI to draw me through the full process of learning Max.

I have other boxes and wires audio apps that are more comfortable for me, I decided M4L didn't have the killer app / killer function required for me to invest the time. I'd rather spend that time playing bass.

Good luck to everyone who perseveres with this application.

Post Reply