Ableton Forum

bagginz wrote:

deanc2000 wrote:If F was the root,
then you could call it F minor 7, add 9.

O.k I'll bite...

Though chord nomenclature is not totally standardised, assuming F is the lowest note it would actually be written F minor9 on almost all chord charts.

Though technically speaking it should include the fifth (C), the fifth is often the first note to be dropped, as it's not essential to the tonal flavour of the chord.

The add Add9 tag implies a third but no seventh.

deanc2000 wrote: In the key of E flat major, It would be the II chord,

Correct.

Or the VI chord in Ab major... Or the IV chord in C minor... Or the I chord in F minor....

deanc2000 wrote: but II chords are hardly every used.

Maybe not in your musical world, but II chords are most certainly used in the rest of the musical universe.

In fact I cannot think of one single jazz tune that does not use the II chord.


To the OP:
Try making a vamp on just the Fmin9 and creating a melody which emphasises or resolves to the ninth (g) note...


Cheers,
bagginz

Bagginz,

You're probably right on the Fm9 business, I'm not a complete expert at the nomenclature, but the basic chord is Fm.


"Or the VI chord in Ab major... Or the IV chord in C minor... Or the I chord in F minor...."

Um, no since you've got different numbers of sharps or flats in different keys. You only have the same number of flats in the major and it's relative minor.

And on the II chord thing, Yea you're right. In popular music, not jazz, the II Chord in not frequently used.

D.

Lazos wrote:

deanc2000 wrote:Well, If it's D flat, then it's a key with 4 flats, which is a different story. Then it would be the keys of either A flat major or F minor.

One has to have a clear number of sharps or flats. This gives you the key (either major or minor), and the tonic chord gives you which one, major or minor.

D.

Sorry, but IMVHO music is music. You don't have to have a clear number of anything.

It's only the common practice-era theorists that have to have their musical world neat and tidy like that. Take a listen to Turkish, Arabic, Persian, or Balinese music, for example. Or for more Western-minded folks, the music of John Cage, John Luther Adams, Claude Debussy, or Harry Partch.

Yes, you're right. One can stray from theory. I know the basics of music theory, you may be more advanced than me. I can say though that most of popular music involves this "music theory", and this "windbaggery", are a collection of rules that when used, generally results in music that is pleasing to western ears.

If that is not your aim, then fine.

D.

Fm#5add2

http://www.chorderator.com/cgi-bin/designer.py

I've just listened to your midi file.

Fm is your I chord, or tonic chord, hence you are in the Fm Key. 4 flats, B, E, A, and D.

Your chord progression is F minor to D flat major, to E flat major, to F minor, or I to VI to VII to I.

You may want to try C major after D flat major, ie I, VI, V, I as it sounds good too and would be a good change of pace.

D.

Another suggestion:

Place the Secondary dominant to D flat major in front of it to make it a 4 measure loop.

So it would go Fm, then the chord C,E flat, A flat (which is A flat major in the first inversion), then D flat major, and finally E flat major.

D.

deanc2000 wrote:I've just listened to your midi file.

Fm is your I chord, or tonic chord, hence you are in the Fm Key. 4 flats, B, E, A, and D.

Your chord progression is F minor to D flat major, to E flat major, to F minor, or I to VI to VII to I.

You may want to try C major after D flat major, ie I, VI, V, I as it sounds good too and would be a good change of pace.

D.

This.

Nicely analysed and explained Dean.

Leeds...NO!

deanc2000 wrote:

bagginz wrote: "Or the VI chord in Ab major... Or the IV chord in C minor... Or the I chord in F minor...."

Um, no since you've got different numbers of sharps or flats in different keys. You only have the same number of flats in the major and it's relative minor.

Yeah sure, relative minor and major have the same key signature.

However regardless of what is written on the page, an Fmin9 chord would be diatonic to those keys I mentioned.

That is to say that any of the notes that Fmin9 is built from, would not fall outside of those keys. So an Fmin9 chord could be derived from any of those keys I mentioned - which was my point.

deanc2000 wrote: And on the II chord thing, Yea you're right. In popular music, not jazz, the II Chord in not frequently used.

Nope. On that point we'll have to agree to disagree.

Once you analyse more pop songs, you'll find out that this statement:

deanc2000 wrote: but II chords are hardly every used.

simply is not true.



Here's just a few more famous ones off the top of my head:

1. Baby Love - Diana Ross

2. Have I Told You Lately I Love You - Van Morrison

3. Hey Jude - Beatles

4. Lovin' You - Minnie Ripperton

5. My Girl - The Temptations

6. My Guy - Mary Wells

7. I'd Rather Go Blind - Ruby Turner

8. You Don't Have To Say You Love Me - Dusty Springfield

9. Everybody's Talking At Me - Nilsson


The list is endless...

bagginz

The list seems to end at 9?



Bagginz is ultimately correct about the notes in the chord and they keys it could be dervied from though, but when seen in the context of the actual chord progression?

UKRuss wrote:

deanc2000 wrote:I've just listened to your midi file.

Fm is your I chord, or tonic chord, hence you are in the Fm Key. 4 flats, B, E, A, and D.

Your chord progression is F minor to D flat major, to E flat major, to F minor, or I to VI to VII to I.

You may want to try C major after D flat major, ie I, VI, V, I as it sounds good too and would be a good change of pace.

D.

This.

Nicely analysed and explained Dean.

Leeds...NO!

Yep. Sorry Dean, if I seemed testy or whatever earlier. I think you have it too. I'm not much into Western harmonic theory these days (did four years of it) and play mostly modal stuff nowadays, but your explanation makes the most sense to my bass player's ears.

I'd warn anyone against using a machine to analyze the chords (it's more than one chord: try playing a bass progression to it). They tend to come up with silly chord names like: Fm#5add2

UKRuss wrote:The list seems to end at 9?

Very funny...

Well that's because I didn't want to spend all day writing down songs which include the II chord...

But while I'm at it, here's a few more - just from memory:

______________

Satisfaction - Rolling Stones
Yesterday - Beatles
Honky Tonk Woman - Rolling Stones
The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face - Roberta Flack
Saving All My Love For You - Whitney
Oliver's Army - Elvis Costello
White Christmas - Bing Crosby
You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman - Carole King
Let it Be - Beatles
Help Me Make it Through the Night - Whoever that was...

_____________

The list really is endless...

The II chord is everywhere in Pop music

Cheers,
bagginz

Lazos wrote:your explanation makes the most sense to my bass player's ears.