Ableton Forum

leedsquietman wrote: Apart from Presonus Studio One (which is in it's first inception anyway), almost all DAWS seem to have been geared up to throwing in new synths, sample content and sound FX as a priority, instead of creative sound design elements or workflow improvements.

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You could say that Ableton have been pretty guilty of this too, since Live 6, where apart from the EIC content, much of their efforts has gone *with 3rd party help* to bundling extra sound content (Session Drums, Drum Machines, Cycling 74, Arcolite, Orchestral Instrument Collection or whatever) and the Suite instruments, plus new FX such as vocoder, overdrive, limiter and multiband dynamics.

Surely Max for Live is more than "sound content", haha.

I find Live's extra instruments and sound content to be much better integrated into Live than, say, Logic's instruments are into Logic. For example, beyond the fact that it is a nifty plug-in, there is nothing about Delay Designer in Logic that makes it better integrated than, say, Echo Boy from SoundToys: they are both plug-ins, end of story. Live's native plug-ins have an altogether different status than a 3d party plug-in, and sample sets that are prepared using instrument racks for layering and effects have a different level of integration into Live than a typical EXS24/Kontakt sample set as well.

At the same time, most of this content isn't "thrown in", it's simply available. But if Ableton didn't push to make these things happen, then there would be only ordinary AUs and VSTs and sample sets available for Live, and it wouldn't be the same as this well-integrated stuff they are offering instead.

-Luddy

Max 4 Live is a seperate discussion ! It wasn't a shot at Ableton, rather all sequencer manufacturers, that workflow and creative possibilities by and large have been overlooked in the plugin war going on in the last 3-4 years.

Live's instruments do integrate better than VSTS, partially because Live devices don't require an extra buffer unlike VSTs and some VSTS aren't really tested properly in Live because some vendors still think that if it works in Protools, Logic, Sonar and Cubase that they got it covered. Also Live doesn't currently offer VST3, which is a much more efficient protocol than VST 2.4 *Cubase 4 and 5 and Presonus Studio One are the only DAWS to support VST3 at present*

This was part of the point I was making - although people prefer whichever plugins and sound content over Live's you can bet there will be an outcry if Ableton just took out the library and ceased with Operator/Sampler and Suite plugins. They at least give you an option to buy Live without these add-ons at a cheaper price.

Bottom line - even though many don't use Live Devices much (apparently), leave them well alone ...

25% sounds
40% effects

Zero. Live's instruments and FX are too simplistic. Kid stuff. I don't know why they bother. Live's only quality feature is the Session View.

midi effects = 40%
audio effects = 2%
sounds < %10 (mostly Simpler, so it's not really Live's sounds)

Live was not my first host and isn't my only host. I find it easier to move between projects in different hosts if I keep the sounds and effects almost all third party. With that said, I look forward to using/learning the benefits and limitations of Live's stuff. The problem is finding the time.