Ableton Forum

Thank you 3phase to tell me the truth about Ableton audio engine.
I'm looking for more information very soon, I can barely wait.

Best regards

The Carpet Cleaner wrote:Thank you 3phase to tell me the truth about Ableton audio engine.
I'm looking for more information very soon, I can barely wait.

Best regards

you´re welcome..

may the brown henke dither be with you at all time...

I want take up the cudgels for 3phase. I don't always agree with him and I think he sometimes traces ghosts... but even though live seems to hate him he has some good points and reasonable thoughts. Even when he's in a flow of hatred he never cross the boarder to flaming for me. I like it here better with his posts...

timothyallan wrote:... if you were able to come up with a concrete example that someone other than yourself could replicate.

This is the thing... 3phase immediate accuses anyone of being a live lover (thus not open and objective) who does not agree with him based on no evidence

If someone could post say 3 examples each with 2 versions, 1 from Live the other from Logic or whatever... where the same thing was done in each and the Live version consistently sounded inferior, I would say yes, that is what I hear too. Then the original audio that was used should be provided so users can verify through their own trial, the results to eliminate user error... then I will readily agree that Live sounds inferior in that sort of circumstance.

But as far as I know, any such tests have shown no meaningful and repeatable difference.

Maybe 3phase has a point, but I can neither agree nor disagree since there is no evidence. I am not myself personally motivated to test it because I record all my audio myself and am not importing songs, clips, changing tempo of those songs or clips so I think what he is talking about is not pertinent to me in any case.

The thing is, people come to live from logic (or dont, with regards to what im about to say), and they expect to be able to use it as easily.

When they come to a different workflow this frustrates and causes them to accuse the software of being shit, and sounding shit.

This is my experience with a popular producer friend of mine.

He simply refuses to learn it because he thinks it "looks crap" cos the faders arent blue and looking like a console.

Also he obviously jumps on the sound quality thing whenever he can. Alway trying to accuse the sound engine of being inferior.

Its really pathetic to me.

Live apart from one or two recent stability issues is perfect for me.
Love it !
Gonna Marry It !

best
J

mr.ergonomics wrote:he has some good points and reasonable thoughts.

can you please name any of these good points or reasonable thoughts?

can someone please tell me what in the name of buggery 'brown henke dither' is?

I stopped reading this forum because of stupid threads like this. Checked back a month later to see if I was missing anything - it seems not...

(oh, and in case you were wondering - at first when I read all these stupid posts I doubted my ears - thought maybe I was missing something, so I spent a day exporting the same song using the same vsts, etc from nuendo, live, logic and compared them using a null test. of course they were exactly the same... people really need to learn to use scientific tests and not arbitrary listening experiments )

/rant

jhartford wrote:I stopped reading this forum because of stupid threads like this. Checked back a month later to see if I was missing anything - it seems not...

(oh, and in case you were wondering - at first when I read all these stupid posts I doubted my ears - thought maybe I was missing something, so I spent a day exporting the same song using the same vsts, etc from nuendo, live, logic and compared them using a null test. of course they were exactly the same... people really need to learn to use scientific tests and not arbitrary listening experiments )

so post the audio, and the associated nuendo/logic/live files so we can make sure you employed enough automation for a realistic test.

Otherwise - congratulations on displaying the same behaviour you chastise others for... in the very same post.
Not an easy thing to do unintentionally.

This thread is as about as surprising as this.

http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/5 ... rry-Im-Gay

jhartford wrote:I stopped reading this forum because of stupid threads like this. Checked back a month later to see if I was missing anything - it seems not...

(oh, and in case you were wondering - at first when I read all these stupid posts I doubted my ears - thought maybe I was missing something, so I spent a day exporting the same song using the same vsts, etc from nuendo, live, logic and compared them using a null test. of course they were exactly the same... people really need to learn to use scientific tests and not arbitrary listening experiments )

/rant

THIS.




As mentioned before your ears cant be trusted. of course live is going to sound worse now that you hate it so much.

and if your ability to hear sound quality is that much better, wheres your chart topping tracks? to be able to hear a difference that lots of people can't hear must mean you must have an incredible music talent that puts you ahead of many people. where's ANY of your tracks? i've been trying to find them to hear your superior sounding audio quality.
but wait! its going to have to be compressed, so the tiny amount of quality difference doesn't matter. even to put it onto a cd would require some transcoding, and a drop to a less ideal sample rate.

In the end no amount of sound quality is going to make up for artistic skill and creativity.

so even if there is a sound quality difference like you say, no one but you really cares. I'd much rather just worry about making music using whatever tool feels most comfortable...

stonee wrote: As mentioned before your ears cant be trusted. of course live is going to sound worse now that you hate it so much.

and if your ability to hear sound quality is that much better, wheres your chart topping tracks? to be able to hear a difference that lots of people can't hear must mean you must have an incredible music talent that puts you ahead of many people. where's ANY of your tracks? i've been trying to find them to hear your superior sounding audio quality.
but wait! its going to have to be compressed, so the tiny amount of quality difference doesn't matter. even to put it onto a cd would require some transcoding, and a drop to a less ideal sample rate.

In the end no amount of sound quality is going to make up for artistic skill and creativity.

Put the bong down.

Why always talking about the sound engine. A DAW is not only all about his sound engine. It's about workflow, possibilities, stability, etc whatever you can think about.
And i don't know for you, but for me the important point in all of that is the result.
So it seems we can't agree of which daw is the best even with "scientific" test.

So here's my idea. Try the different tools, different DAWs. Do that for 1 year with lots of different projects. Then, instead of trying to find which daw is the best by using your ears ( we cannot trust our own ears for this kind of stuff), simply take the feedback from the "end users" : you fans, your clients , people doing the same kind of music that you do. And you'll see what are the best tools for you.
Obviously you can't juge with only two tracks, but in the long run, you should be able to see which one isthe best. Then you come back on this forum and tell us the truth.

Or we can also do like that : 100 producers use ableton live for 1 year, and another 100 use logic. At the end of the year we can see which pool is in the top 10 of beatport.
I'm a genius.