Ableton Forum

Cezband wrote:

LoopStationZebra wrote: I started searching on every music forum I know for info on the SoftStep, and could barely find a user. Loopers-Delight had one or two. Gearslutz had one or two. And that's it. They weren't even really talking about the thing.

I also find it surprising/disconcerting how difficult it is to find information about the softstep, especially considering the amount of potential it offers. Small companies have small advertising budgets, sure, but if I was a neutral music magasine and one of these came through the letterbox I'd certainly put some sort of article together about it.

I'm heartened to see that kmi are concerned enough to actually jump in to the forums to tackle issues head on - I'll be reading Danny's responses carefully. I'm still eager to buy one, but not if it's going to mean hours trying to problem-solve it when I should be using it. The resource issue is also very concerning.

Essentially, all I need to convince me to buy one are a handful of testimonials/reviews from some impartial, unconnected sources that say that there are no bugs beyond the usual piddly things that any new product has. As a consumer, I don't see that as being too much to ask.

+1
There's virtually no reviews out there yet.

I mean, here's a guy who writes in his blog that the unit has been receiving fantastic reviews and user feedback. Fucking WHERE are those, exactly? lol

http://www.barrythrew.com/2011/01/12/ke ... namm-show/

Fuck me. Even THIS thread wanders off from the subject of the SoftStep and spends more time talking about the fucking FCB1010 . And the OP? HE says he's having problems with the SoftStep, lol. Hasn't even been back here yet.

I think the software is incredibly buggy, KMI obviously disagrees. My friend found the same thing. corneliusw says his is great (software version?), says HIS friend thinks so as well. The one review out there says it's got bugs.

*shrug*

At this point I want VIDEO proof. I want video footage of someone on a MacBook or MBP actually programming presets using the 2 software and firmware versions out now. Changing scenes, and coming back to those presets to see what happens.

@Cezband
Are you on a MB or MBP? If you are, I think you should buy the SoftStep now and see how it goes, lol.

@Danny
I'm READY TO LOVE THE SOFTSTEP.

It's amazing going back and watching the SoftStep-First Tutorial vid at the KMI site.

http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/s ... videos.php

The speed with which Sarah is cruising through stuff is astounding. Not necessarily because she's fast (which she is), but because all of those tasks moved at pretty much a snail's pace for me.

At the 5:57 mark she does a series of fast CUT and PASTE actions with the presets. It's so fast. Amazing.

That same exact task - cut n paste - BROUGHT MY MACBOOK TO IT'S FUCKING KNEES.


You could hear the think crying out in pain as the beachball spun out of control madly after each paste action.

My entire machine was nearly dead.

Until I quit out of the SoftStep app. Then it was it's happy ole' efficient self again. I'm opening Ableton, Flash, Premiere. Serious RAM intensive programs. No problems whatsoever.

I am currently away from my setup for a little while so I can't check .... But, I haven't upgraded the firmware and software for a few months. If it ain't broke ..... I ain't touching it! I'm pretty sure the software I'm using is 1.03 but I'm not sure what firmware. I can check in a few days. I honestly can say it is not displaying any of the problems you have. And I've been using it a lot! In 2 different bands and just about to take it on an OS tour.

My Macs: MBP i7 2010 & Mac Pro Xeon 2008

After reading your posts, I'm wondering if my luck is from not hoping onto the latest versions? I think I won't upgrade until I hear that we can roll back! The new feature if saving to the SS sure sounds handy, but I'd rather have it working.

Well, my MBP, comparatively is as fast, or possibly faster.

I'm wondering if your problem has something to do with MaxMSP? As the software is written in Max, it could be some old install of another Max based app causing havoc with the SS software. I'm just guessing here, but you could test it by installing another Max compiled app. Maybe you could try deleting the Max Runtime preferences? I'm not on either of my machines, so Im not even sure where they are, what theyre called or even if they exist!

FYI, my friend that used my SS was on a first gen MacBook with 1 GB RAM using 1.03. It worked perfectly. So it's either something to do with newer versions beyond 1.03 or, an incompatibility that is Max runtime related on your and your friends system.

I will be with my gear this weekend, so I can check further then.

Thanks, cornelius. Interesting about the Max stuff. I've got Max5/Runtime on my machine. Not sure if that would matter, though.

A few thoughts:

1. There's no verbiage in the manual, tutorials, or website about watching out for Max incompatibilities. If that is indeed a potential problem, there should absolutely be some sort of note.

2. Older versions of the software should be made available online.

3. Do you have time machine? Is there any way you could load the new standard and beta versions and give them a test run? lol. At the very least you could always then go back to your original settings if things are wonky.

The Max incompatibility is just something I'm guessing. I'm probably wrong.

I am definitely not going to touch the firmware on my SS until after my OS tour, which will be in April. I will need to do that to use the new software. I can't risk it not working. I hope you understand.

..... Unless, the guys at KMI can confirm firmware can be rolled back and any possible installation errors can be rewritten? If so, I'd be happy to give it a go when I'm back in town this weekend.

I've always thought all software companies should archive all versions online. I'm sure they'll send then to you if you ask.

LoopStationZebra wrote:@Cezband
Are you on a MB or MBP? If you are, I think you should buy the SoftStep now and see how it goes, lol.

I'm actually using a pretty middle-of-the-road windows laptop, and fucking Vista at that. I don't mind the standard amount of faffing about that goes with that, I just don't need it compounded with additional faffing about regarding buggy software. Again, just a sentence or two here and there from a review or a forum user saying that it's straightforward or not that big of a deal would increase my confidence 10x.

corneliusw wrote:The Max incompatibility is just something I'm guessing. I'm probably wrong.

I am definitely not going to touch the firmware on my SS until after my OS tour, which will be in April. I will need to do that to use the new software. I can't risk it not working. I hope you understand.

..... Unless, the guys at KMI can confirm firmware can be rolled back and any possible installation errors can be rewritten? If so, I'd be happy to give it a go when I'm back in town this weekend.

I've always thought all software companies should archive all versions online. I'm sure they'll send then to you if you ask.

Understood about the reluctance - especially with impending gigs. Also, regarding Max, I didn't have any instances of Max M4L running at all. So unless somehow the SoftStep software started pointing to a Max folder out there.....

While LoopStationZebra's initial impressions were seemingly useful, his credibility is rapidly devolving. Was it really necessary to post such a melodramatic comment on the Ableton tutorial youtube vid? Come on, dude, it just makes you look whiny and histrionic and makes me take your difficulties way less seriously. Especially after more than one KMI employee has tried to help you personally in this very thread.

That being said, I feel very similar to the others in this thread who are waiting for the reviews it seems a gadget like this warrants. It's new(ish), sure, but by now I would have expected to see more than a single Gearwire review and copy/pastes of the press release all over.

kaptainkaffeine wrote:While LoopStationZebra's initial impressions were seemingly useful, his credibility is rapidly devolving.

How, exactly, is my credibility rapidly devolving? Because I ranted? Pfft. Total Red Herring. You're more upset about the WAY I've presented this than any potential issues. Fair enough. I'm being a bit of a dick - but for all the reasons I've mentioned. I calls it as I sees it.

I've given specific examples of the issues.

I had a friend test on his MBP - same results. Am I to believe that these issues are the result of...of...both of us installing the software incorrectly? Or some Max/MSP conflict? Brah.

I've yet to read or hear of ANY example in which someone is successfully running the latest standard and beta software on a Mac.

Danny@KMI did not confirm in either of his posts that the latest standard and beta release is bug free in terms of MacBook/MBP usage. I'll await his response.

NOT ONE of the fix suggestions in any communication from KMI was somethihg I hadn't already tried.

There's no release history given on the KMI website or docs that show me the progress of release and bug fix history. The sole review of the product mentions bugs early on...were those even addressed? WHAT were they, EXACTLY? (The reviewer waxes poetic for paragraph after paragraph about features, ffs. But doesn't offer even ONE concrete example of a bug.)

I stand ready to be corrected. As I've mentioned, I will be more than happy to publically apologize and take down/amend any negative comments I've made when - and only when - I'm absolutely proven wrong: that the software works (nearly) bug free with EITHER one of the versions I've listed and doesn't eat up enormous amounts of RAM.

Until then....

Okay, as a show of good faith - and to demonstrate that I'm not COMPLETELY INSANE - I've removed that YouTube comment. Basically I told them that I wanted to light the thing on fire.

All of my comments here, however, will remain.

Thanks everyone for the comments and feedback. Few things I will respond to that there was some concern/question about:

-Our software is a standalone application built from Max/MSP. Having any previous versions/runtimes of Max or Max for Live on your computer should not interfere with the SoftStep application whatsoever. Both I and our developers have several different versions of Max on our computers (all macbook pro's) with zero issues. When the standalone application is open, it does not look at anything Max-application related, it all opens from within the standalone SoftStep application. Our entire company uses Macbook Pro's ranging from the original Intel versions to both models of the Unibody (Intel Core Duo & Ii7 versions). We have not seen any issues relating to the computers we are using. The software takes a bit of RAM to run on some machines, but it should by no means cripple any Macbook Pro. We are working on optimizing how much memory the application uses, but standalone mode currently solves this entirely.
-All of our Software/Firmware is completely backwards compatible. You can even have multiple versions on your computer simultaneously, you just need to be careful when managing your preset folders. The preset folders need to be in the application directory you are opening. As for firmware, you can use Sysex Librarian to install any version you like (VJ1 is from the November build for v1.031, and VJ26 is the beta firmware for v1.099). Each firmware should be paired correctly with which software version you choose to run.
-We have more users on the Mac side than the PC side, but both platform's versions of the 1.031 build work great. The PC version of beta v1.099 is still not quite ready. As well, we do include a version_notes.txt file with our software which includes change notes about what has been updated and/or added to the newer software version. These 2 versions of the software are the only versions available to download. v1.031 is a stable build and any includes many fixes from previous versions.
-There will be reviews coming. We are still pretty new on the market with the SoftStep. I will say there are several big magazines with SoftSteps in their possession waiting to review it, but are extremely backed up with tons of gear reviews. It doesnt help that the magazine industry is suffering as a result of so many online review blogs and web sites.


After reading all the posts in this thread, Sarah from our support team has decided to make a preset making/saving tutorial video within the next day or two. This should demonstrate carefully all the steps involved in properly creating and saving presets. This should help everyone understand the methods as well as demonstrate that all functionality is completely usable in the current versions. It will be a screen capture from Sarah's macbook pro, along with dialoge to walk you through the process. Sarah should have the video completed by tomorrow evening, I will post a link to it on this forum as soon as it becomes available.

LoopStationZebra wrote:

kaptainkaffeine wrote:While LoopStationZebra's initial impressions were seemingly useful, his credibility is rapidly devolving.

How, exactly, is my credibility rapidly devolving? Because I ranted? Pfft. Total Red Herring. You're more upset about the WAY I've presented this than any potential issues. Fair enough. I'm being a bit of a dick - but for all the reasons I've mentioned. I calls it as I sees it.

You seem to be the only one having problems (much like corneliusw is the only one having a positive experience...just not enough data) and yet you really seem to be taking it personally. I'm just not inclined to base a purchasing decision on the review of anyone as irrational as you are acting. Just letting you know that's how you're coming across.

Danny, I'm looking forward to the reviews. I've been considering an FCB1010 for a long time but it always seemed like more trouble than it was worth to have to continually reprogram it in such a cumbersome way. The softstep sure seems like a great idea, but as I said, I'm reluctant to throw down when there's no real reviews out there anywhere, even on the blogs you're talking about. Maybe sending out some review units to some of the bigger gear blogs might help? One column in Keyboard or Electronic Music or whatever would be awesome, but honestly I'm more interested in an in-depth review from Create Digital Music or Synthtopia or something.

kaptainkaffeine wrote:You seem to be the only one having problems (much like corneliusw is the only one having a positive experience...just not enough data) and yet you really seem to be taking it personally. I'm just not inclined to base a purchasing decision on the review of anyone as irrational as you are acting. Just letting you know that's how you're coming across.

Again, total Red Herring in referring to my behaviour as any indicator of the quality of the product or the validity of my experience/opinion. Total. Red. Herring.

If all you see is how many times I use the word FUCK, and choose to dismiss the obvious shortcomings of the software as I experienced them, that's your problem and not mine. I could absolutely care in the least how my tone or approach contributes to your buying decision making process.

And talk about drama: You register at the Ableton forum for the sole purpose of trying to dress me down. omfg.

Have to say that the general conscientious that you jumped the gun on this is accurate LSZ.
Obviously there is some issue with your set up that's common enough for one other person to have that issue too. That's all you proved with having your friend also use your controller etc. Thing is I'm pretty certain that most companies being as they can be righteously attacked easily online these days for buggy software etc. try to make sure bugs aren't there. Even on a macbook though they have not a clue what other software you have, and though it's unlikely on OSX, it has happened with me that drivers for an unrelated device screwed up my MIDI big time. A sync issue I had with Live and the Dave Smith Evolver turned out to be an older Logitech mouse driver. For whatever reason it didn't affect DP or Logic, which drover me nuts, and had me roasting Ableton on the forums etc.

Who knows? it could be some virtual desktop software, some driver for mutually loved mouse you two use, a glitch in your particular hardware etc.
Max/MSP can be touchy with other devices, and it's very likely that something is interfering with it. Two days isn't enough time for full on bug testing.
Another example of me jumping to conclusions without actually knowing what the problem was is with Kore 1 hardware, it lost connection with Live all the fucking time, would sometimes randomly freak out, and generally was a touchy POS. I bought it used off ebay and thought I had a lemon and that the Kore 1 software was a buggy mess. Turned out to be a bad USB cord.

You should have kept it around at least until you directly talked to tech support about it, and got some feedback. Not doing that and running one blind test isn't helpful to anybody but you, in the sense that you don't have to play around trying to fix the issues, but it's not helpful to anybody trying to make a decision about buying the pedal. All it says is it's possible that you can have the same issues as you, and there's no telling whether or not tech support can solve it because you lost it and returned it before really putting it through it's paces.