iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Discuss anything related to audio or music production.
LoopStationZebra
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:26 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:
razorblade wrote: Electronic musicians have been doing stuff without velocity response for a long time. A Buchla doesn't need a velocity keyboard to sound godlike.

Almost all of the high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity. The Apc20, apc 40 and launchpad don't do velocity. Velocity isn't a defining quality of a controller for many uses.

Even discounting the limited pad and key velocity response, the clip and device handling alone for a fifteen dollar program is fucking phenomenal.

But - Haters gonna hate...
Apc 20, Apc 40 and launchpad are not instruments they are control surfaces.

And this is exactly why I said real musicians...

Velocity or also known as applitude is a requirement of synthesis, so saying that "high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity" is a moronic statement. Without Velocity there is no synthesis, no synthesis their would be no synthesizer.

If by chance you were really wanting to say that "high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity sensitive keys", you would be wrong. Moogs have been implimenting them since 1971...

Painful. Truly, truly painful.
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stringtapper
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by stringtapper » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:55 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:Apc 20, Apc 40 and launchpad are not instruments they are control surfaces.

And this is exactly why I said real musicians...

Velocity or also known as applitude is a requirement of synthesis, so saying that "high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity" is a moronic statement. Without Velocity there is no synthesis, no synthesis their would be no synthesizer.

If by chance you were really wanting to say that "high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity sensitive keys", you would be wrong. Moogs have been implimenting them since 1971...
What's up with the "real musicians" schtick? You think you're the only one around here who plays an instrument (if indeed you do)?

Regarding the APC40, etc. I guess you're not aware that there are Max for Live patches and scripts that let you play those devices like instruments? And I guess you're probably also not aware of the ongoing debate among musicologists over what defines an "instrument"? For instance, is the computer an instrument? Many contemporary composers say "yes."

In your need to bash anything Apple related (or at least anything LSZ related) you are revealing yourself as having a very narrow view of musical practice.
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:02 pm

stringtapper wrote: Apple related / LSZ related

They really are one and the same at this point. Which is how the L :x RD intended it to be.
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Digital_Damage
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by Digital_Damage » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:09 pm

stringtapper wrote:
Digital_Damage wrote:Apc 20, Apc 40 and launchpad are not instruments they are control surfaces.

And this is exactly why I said real musicians...

Velocity or also known as applitude is a requirement of synthesis, so saying that "high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity" is a moronic statement. Without Velocity there is no synthesis, no synthesis their would be no synthesizer.

If by chance you were really wanting to say that "high value collectible synths do not support any sort of velocity sensitive keys", you would be wrong. Moogs have been implimenting them since 1971...
What's up with the "real musicians" schtick? You think you're the only one around here who plays an instrument (if indeed you do)?

Regarding the APC40, etc. I guess you're not aware that there are Max for Live patches and scripts that let you play those devices like instruments? And I guess you're probably also not aware of the ongoing debate among musicologists over what defines an "instrument"? For instance, is the computer an instrument? Many contemporary composers say "yes."

In your need to bash anything Apple related (or at least anything LSZ related) you are revealing yourself as having a very narrow view of musical practice.
Playing an instrument does not make you a musician. Playing an instrument makes you an instrumentalist.

If you are asking if I’m instrumentalist, yes I play the piano, guitar and viola.

If you are asking if I’m a musician, yes I read, write and arrange music and understand the principles of music theory to a degree that allows me to create scores.

The APC is not an instrument by any definition regardless of “patches”. It produces no wave lengths. The computer does produce wave lengths so there for it can be considered and instrument if it meets the other necessary requirements.

The APC is a control surface.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:12 pm

I stands behinds my statement. Now more than ever.

iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

At this point you can play the iPad:

Like a guitar or any number of stringed instruments.

Like a wind instrument.

Like any number of keyboard based instruments.

Like any number of percussive instruments.

Like any number of electronic based generative instruments.

Like any number of electronic based misc instruments (Theremin, for example).


Name ONE instrument or device that can do all of that.
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Digital_Damage
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by Digital_Damage » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:16 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:I stands behinds my statement. Now more than ever.

iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

At this point you can play the iPad:

Like a guitar or any number of stringed instruments.

Like a wind instrument.

Like any number of keyboard based instruments.

Like any number of percussive instruments.

Like any number of electronic based generative instruments.

Like any number of electronic based misc instruments (Theremin, for example).


Name ONE instrument or device that can do all of that.

It has to be able to do any of those well to be considered more than a gimmik. And it does none of it well.

beats me
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by beats me » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:19 pm

Image

LoopStationZebra
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:27 pm

beats me wrote:Image
DAMN YOU AND YOUR ONE MAN BAND IMAGE, BEATS!
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LoopStationZebra
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:28 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:
LoopStationZebra wrote:I stands behinds my statement. Now more than ever.

iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

At this point you can play the iPad:

Like a guitar or any number of stringed instruments.

Like a wind instrument.

Like any number of keyboard based instruments.

Like any number of percussive instruments.

Like any number of electronic based generative instruments.

Like any number of electronic based misc instruments (Theremin, for example).


Name ONE instrument or device that can do all of that.

It has to be able to do any of those well to be considered more than a gimmik. And it does none of it well.

Spoken like a true neophyte. You've got years to go, laddie. Years to go.
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beats me
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by beats me » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:33 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:
beats me wrote:Image
DAMN YOU AND YOUR ONE MAN BAND IMAGE, BEATS!

And it's all velocity sensitive so it's worth the investment and discomfort.

razorblade
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by razorblade » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:48 pm

Apc 20, Apc 40 and launchpad are not instruments they are control surfaces.
A keyboard is also a control surface, not an instrument.
Velocity or also known as applitude is a requirement of synthesis,
Amplitude (the correct spelling) and Velocity are not the same things, pinhead.

Yer talkin out yer ass buddy.
No...I am 3phase!

stringtapper
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by stringtapper » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:48 pm

Digital_Damage wrote:Playing an instrument does not make you a musician. Playing an instrument makes you an instrumentalist.

If you are asking if I’m instrumentalist, yes I play the piano, guitar and viola.

If you are asking if I’m a musician, yes I read, write and arrange music and understand the principles of music theory to a degree that allows me to create scores.

The APC is not an instrument by any definition regardless of “patches”. It produces no wave lengths. The computer does produce wave lengths so there for it can be considered and instrument if it meets the other necessary requirements.

The APC is a control surface.
Glad you have all of these things figured out in your own mind. In the "actual world," where ideas and concepts are being debated regularly, the lines between interface (what you call a control surface) and instrument are certainly becoming blurred, whether you like it or not. You may want to (narrowly) define an instrument as only that which can produce wavelengths, but even in the case of the computer, is it the CPU itself which creates the actual vibration you hear? Or the DAC? Could we pull the computer apart to find only one single element that you might consider the instrument?

From the New Grove article for "Instruments, Musical":


Instruments, Musical.
Objects or devices for producing mus. sound by mechanical energy or electrical impulses. They can be classified as:

(1) Str. (plucked or bowed).

(2) Wind (played by blowing direct into the mouthpiece or through a reed).

(3) Perc. (of determinate or indeterminate pitch).

(4) Elec.



Not that the New Grove should be taken as the end-all-be-all, but it is the premier scholarly encyclopedia of music and musical study in English. So the portion of the definition about "electrical impulses" would seem to run contrary to your own definition as we would have to agree that an electrical impulse from the APC40 does have the ability to produce a musical event. So is the APC40 itself an instrument? Is the computer alone the instrument? Or is a new concept of modular instrument construction emerging as a result of these practices? I've had this debate before and the result is usually an acceptance that you can break most instruments into components that generate sound and components that interface with the human. The problem with your argument is, without the interface there is no sound, no event is triggered. So it's not as cut and dry as you would like to make it, I think.




*Posted by an instrumentalist (trombone/voice/double bass/electric bass/Chapman Stick) and musician (MM in theory / Ph.D. candidate in theory and composition)
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razorblade
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by razorblade » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:57 pm

If I have an instrument that is velocity sensitive, but I turn off the velocity, does it cease to be an instrument?
If I program velocity to control something other than amplitude, does it cease being velocity?

Oh, the existential synth angst...
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Digital_Damage
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by Digital_Damage » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:59 pm

razorblade wrote:
Apc 20, Apc 40 and launchpad are not instruments they are control surfaces.
A keyboard is also a control surface, not an instrument.
Velocity or also known as applitude is a requirement of synthesis,
Amplitude (the correct spelling) and Velocity are not the same things, pinhead.

Yer talkin out yer ass buddy.
Never said a Midi keyboard was an instrument.

Velocity and Amplitude are required to make a wave length. You can not have one without the other they are synonymous in terms of producing sound waves.


Don't be a douche just because you were proven to be an idiot.

LoopStationZebra
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Re: iPad Now the Most Versatile Instrument. Ever.

Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:00 pm

razorblade wrote:If I have an instrument that is velocity sensitive, but I turn off the velocity, does it cease to be an instrument?

FUNNY. FUNNY, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!
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