"Beatport" stands for Commercial and Sellout?

[Khazul]

How many people still go out, play live, build an actual audience and a following, and then sell their albums/tracks via their own website?

Thats exacty what we are gearing up for - not to avoid labels, but to ensure that we can engage with them at the right time and hence on favourable terms.
TBH - we fully expect to make exactly zero from sales for quite some time.

We also expect to make near zero from live play as artists (the harsh reality is channels allways seem to make way more money than the medium the channel is selling - shows, CDs, mp3s whatever).

So become the channel at least until you can engage with the big boys as near equals rather than just little bugs to be squashed and otherwise screwed over. I think this the real story behind the success of deadmau5 - not his music, but his approach. Same with tiesto. Dont just play good music (you can have that in a local club), but organise and put on a good show. Your entertainers - so entertain!

[t.riggins]

Hopefully I didn't misunderstand but it was not just trying to start a label, they were the artists and Label creators, doing 2 things at once........trying to be independent. But ya definitely is a case and point because like he mentioned, if you don't have the promotional budget you get with major labels it is a lot harder.

On that note hopefully it don't seem like I'm personally trying to bash beatport as that's not the case. I just mentioned that article since he had some personal experience trying to distribute on there.

Until next time gentlemen!!!

[xzusa8ky]

Hey guys here's the link to that article my colleague wrote when he talked about Beatport.

http://www.internetdj.com/article/tales ... o-pro-1126


The part where they got dropped is around the 10th paragraph......but overall the entire article is for those who are trying to go pro and speaks from his own experience.....so It's a really good article and gives a good insight how Beatport operates.

But like anything that involves the words "major / corporation" its all about the money, you either bring money to them or don't. Anyway take a few minutes and read up

Nice article.....

[Forge.]

Hopefully I didn't misunderstand but it was not just trying to start a label, they were the artists and Label creators, doing 2 things at once........trying to be independent. But ya definitely is a case and point because like he mentioned, if you don't have the promotional budget you get with major labels it is a lot harder.

On that note hopefully it don't seem like I'm personally trying to bash beatport as that's not the case. I just mentioned that article since he had some personal experience trying to distribute on there.

Until next time gentlemen!!!

but maybe they are just being a little premature? ..... give it some time to build a name using established labels, then when you have built a name start you label?

[The Leveller]

Does no one else think that the whole industry is just geared around making money from the wannabes?

From the computer you buy, the soundcard, the daw, the plug-ins, the labels, the distribution, the magazines you buy, everything.

They are available to buy because there are a huge number of people out there who imagine they are the next aphex twin/Prodigy/insert name of famous artist here.

The whole industry of digital music production and sale is geared around bolstering the illusion that most amateur producers harbour: That they think they are good enough to go pro and will get the records signed by a label (perceived as some sort of holy grail, flip knows why...) and become rich and famous. When the reality is, they aren't and never will be but there's plenty of companies who will make money out of them along the way until they actually realise the truth.

Beatport sells the results of that and as with any model 20% of the artists generate 80% of the sales and they are all already established pro names. Look at the beatport charts, you may not like the music, but how many unknowns are in there?

None. The promise of success is an illusion to most and Beatport are there to cash in.

[LoopStationZebra]

^Thank you.

The article is interesting, but sort of troubling on several levels.

There are certain Universal Truths that apply to any genre of music. The author even touches upon the most important of these:

Disappointment and struggle are, for now, part of the game.

Well, yeah. The part that's bizarre to me is the suggestion he's making that it will, at some magical point, NOT be a part of the game.



Universal Truth #1
You are nothing and nobody cares about you.



Universal Truth #2
There's no substitute for live performance in order to build a following that will *hopefully* also buy your records. Only at the end does the author mention playing live, and even then it's just in passing. He even admits to being a 'non-performing' producer.

Electronic artists in particular seem to think that this important step can be skipped over because of the internet. Being an armchair musician is awesome, and I'm not criticizing those that don't want to perform. But to get pissed that you've been dropped from beatport, and then completely ignore this topic in a bitch session article, speaks volumes to me. If he had written something to the effect that the artists on his label are constantly gigging, constantly on the road, steadily building a strong following from city to city and state to state, I would have had more respect and understanding for what he's going through.

Believing that the time honoured rules don't apply to you; that you can somehow 'innovate' your way to success via goofy online label schemes and whatnot, is bizarrre. How's that working out so far? The more beatports there are, the bigger the need to get out in front of actual people and differentiate yourself.



Universal Truth #3
Being an artist - any kind of artist - is HARD FUCKING FULL TIME WORK. The author writes this:

With most of us having full-time jobs or being full-time students, or both, this all had to be done in our spare time, often taking away from personal life and cutting into the time actually needed to make music.

Yikes.

Every artist I've ever known who has acheived a certain level of financial success has done so via balls-to-the-wall unrelenting mindnumbing backbreaking painstaking heartbreaking emotionally draining FULL TIME WORK. Be they painters or actors or sculptors or musicians, they all have had one thing in common: They fucking gave up EVERYTHING in pursuit of their art. Even then, there's no guarantees. One thing is for certain, however. I've not known a single individual or group that has attained financial success/independence who only treated their art as a part-time thing.

Countless Indie bands in the 80s got it right:

1. Play live. Anywhere, anyway, anyhow. Keep playing live. All the time. Sell your grandmother to the gypsies for gas money. Sleep in the piece of shit van that keeps breaking down. Beg for gigs. Never turn down a gig no matter what kind of a shithole you find yourself in. Do this for no less than 1 year.

2. Give up everything for your art. I just cannot imagine wanting something so badly, then deciding to 1. not put yourself out there in front of actual human beings in order to make an emotional connection and 2. Not be willing to give up everything for the art.


Universal Truth #4
"It's a long way to the top if you wanna Rock & Roll"
-Bon Scott

[Khazul]

^Thank you.Universal Truth #4
"It's a long way to the top if you wanna Rock & Roll"
-Bon Scott

And then to die alone in a knackered old renault outside a club in london.. (now called Koko).

[LoopStationZebra]

^Thank you.Universal Truth #4
"It's a long way to the top if you wanna Rock & Roll"
-Bon Scott

And then to die alone in a knackered old renault outside a club in london.. (now called Koko).

Anyway...

Khazul, I think you're getting what I'm saying, right? Sounds like you're heading out to do some live shows and get a solid following and THEN attack.

[Khazul]

^Thank you.Universal Truth #4
"It's a long way to the top if you wanna Rock & Roll"
-Bon Scott

And then to die alone in a knackered old renault outside a club in london.. (now called Koko).

Anyway...

Khazul, I think you're getting what I'm saying, right? Sounds like you're heading out to do some live shows and get a solid following and THEN attack.

Yes - trying to get some festivals booked up for the summer around europe - may as well start as you mean to go on

[fisto]

Really interesting opinions here !
Just wanted to add that i too think that one has to sacrifice quite a lot to achieve something
in the musicbiz, if not all. I can't imagine becoming a great artist/producer without playing live and without doi g it at least nearly full-time. Sorry to go offtopic, but i have no job since 4 years, i'm living on benefits as the only thing i can do is making great music. I'm not producing techno (which for me
would be no problem, but please don't fell offended dear techno-heads so there was quite a long way gettingthe big sound and the technical perfection right beforereleasing stuff.

With my second release i even made it 2 weeks into thebeatport-top 100 withan unknown label and a totally new name. And now i soon will be taking over the big guys in my genre, that's for sure .

The point i'm trying to say: you won't get anywhere unless you make your art the big number one priority in your life, even if it means having just enough money pay rent and food. I constantly had to listen to peole telling me:"get a job, what you wanna become later?,...etc"! But as i start to rise up now, the same people are backing me up and support me. funny ha?

Imagine if i had listened to them in the first place, i would now be working an idiot job and would waste my god-given talent .

So either you know you're made for this and thn you have to do it, or you just would like to be a famous artist, then please stop, you're wasting youre time.

Sorry for the offtopic-post, but i thought it would ad also the artists point of view in this discussion

[Forge.]

Does no one else think that the whole industry is just geared around making money from the wannabes?

the whole industry is about ego. Check soundcloud, myspace, even the 'link your music' forum here - it is never about listening to other people's music, it's about getting people to listen to YOUR music....... "Hey check out MY new tunes" - I've finally turned off the email notifications in soundcloud because I'm so sick of all the spam.... finally SC has taken over from myspace in spam. Myspace is just a big puddle of piss now...... it was maybe useful 5 years ago.....

This is again why you need a label to get your tunes out there - it is their job to promote it and it is them that will get your tracks into the bigger DJ's playlists. Sure you CAN do it on your own if you're really keen and prepared to work 25 hours a day, but it's really a lot of work and seriously why put the time into that when you could be putting it into your music?

It's different of course if you are a promoter and don't make your own music, but I don't think that's what we're mostly talking about here.....

[Forge.]

Well, if you have vinyl and are prepared to give a lot of records away for free, you can sign up for one of those DJ lists thingys.

it's not just about giving the records away - it's having the reputation that gets them listened to.

Anyway, this "commercial/sell out" debate is funny. In every genre ever made there has always been this conversation about how commercial XYZ is and whether they've "sold out" - but I like to think of that interview with Paul McCartney where he said he and John were really upfront about it and used to say things like "right, let's write ourselves a swimming pool".

John was a bit more humble in his appraisal when asked by the press if the money helped them write music: "... it's easier to write with cushions than on pieces of hard bench..."

Of course the big irony is these days a cushion is about all your royalties will buy you.

[The Leveller]

This month's future music mag is one of those: how to realease your music and make money issues again...

Waste of time. That's three months in a row theyve had nothing to talk about of any use.

We had 50 top producer tips (a rehash of all the interviews they had through 2010, with no gems of advice)
Then top 100 plug ins or some such
Now, how to release your music and make money in 2011.



Yes, either work hard on the live scene and build a rep OR accept your music is a vanity project and treat it accordingly OR just have some fun.

Beatport panders to the ego, they are complicit in the scamming of the wannabe.

Sell-out? No. Commercial, yes, of course. What successful business isn't?

[pepezabala]

How many people still go out, play live, build an actual audience and a following, and then sell their albums/tracks via their own website?

We have not one paid download on bandcamp, but sold 500+ selfmade CDs on concerts in total. And several dozens of T-shirts. We play once or twice a month. Hobbyists.

While this might be mostly due to the reason that our music sucks but the concerts are funny, I can only recommend to everyone who starts: Go out and sell stuff on gigs. If that this is too much for you personally, bring a friend who does it.

Even my friends who publish regularly on indie labels and have their stuff available on amazon/itunes/whatever make more money selling their records themselves than by distribution.

And the real money nowadays seems to be with licensing. The most money I ever made with music was when producing for publicity and giving away all my rights with the finished tunes.

[LoopStationZebra]

How many people still go out, play live, build an actual audience and a following, and then sell their albums/tracks via their own website?

We have not one paid download on bandcamp, but sold 500+ selfmade CDs on concerts in total. And several dozens of T-shirts. We play once or twice a month. Hobbyists.

While this might be mostly due to the reason that our music sucks but the concerts are funny, I can only recommend to everyone who starts: Go out and sell stuff on gigs. If that this is too much for you personally, bring a friend who does it.

Even my friends who publish regularly on indie labels and have their stuff available on amazon/itunes/whatever make more money selling their records themselves than by distribution.

And the real money nowadays seems to be with licensing. The most money I ever made with music was when producing for publicity and giving away all my rights with the finished tunes.

I think you guys are fucking fantastic. I've seen most of your YouTube vids, and you really seem to understand what's going on and what's important in terms of building an audience:

1. Put on an interesting show that engages people on several levels.
2. Make the performance - and the evening - memorable.
3. Mix up the performance with a variety of pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUrbdSW_ ... re=related

Jesus, that's great. You even throw in some real instruments with live looping, lol.

And the most important part? There seems to be a shitload of people attending your gigs. That's not by accident, and that's sure as shit from not just releasing stuff on beatport or wherever, lol. That's from GETTING OUT THERE AND PLAYING LIVE.

The real question is this: Your website has a link to merchandise. How much business do you get from that?