Ableton Forum

auto-lock wrote:Not only did I get screwed over with share and an unstable release but now you're give away M4L for new suit owners while we only get a measly 30% u fucktards!

Way to go, from my favorite company and favorite software to this...

wah! wah! well fuck you, i don't get anything off!

and what sort of 'suit' are we talking about? bespoke or off the peg?

I am replying to this to let everyone know that I dont care.

You could say that some one who really does not care would not bother replying... but I dont care about that either.

Put it in this perspective.. in total everyone is getting 30% off.

Normal suite+m4l download= $1000
Normal m4l download= $300
Total discounted= $300

Total price payed= $700

last i checked that's a 30% discount.

Anubis wrote: +1 ...and NI is savvy enough to understand that. I feel a Komplete sale comin' on.

NI's "Komplete Sales" are always a sure indicator for:

• We have a new version of Komplete soon, but we don't tell you yet
• The new version will drop some of the products you already own. Not supported anymore.
• But we put some presets called "Kore instruments" into it. So it will look like a package with products more than ever

Bizon wrote:

beats me wrote:I still really don’t have any interest in M4L but…

Perhaps it would have been nice if they gave you a discount based on how long you’ve been using Live easily traceable to your registered upgrade paths.

Since 8: 20% (That’s right, I’m only giving noobs 20)
Since 7: 30%
Since 6: 40%
Since 5: 50%

Maybe leave it at that. It would be a way to reward long time users.

That’s nice and all but Ableton is a company that likes making money.

You may not like noobs but they bring the biggest chunk of money. Therefore, they should be enticed as much as possible (with bigger discounts).

The rest of us, well, were already on board and will most likely upgrade with or without a discount.

Whoever said that Capitalism was fair? Seems to me like there is a bunch of commies on this board.

Actually I’m fine with Ableton offering free add-ons to attract new customers and I should have mentioned that. I meant customers who started with 8 before any kind of special deal was offered.

EnjoyRC wrote:

beats me wrote:Since 8: 20% (That’s right, I’m only giving noobs 20)
Since 7: 30%
Since 6: 40%
Since 5: 50%

Hmmmm I came on board in v2. what's my discount?

Then I think Ableton should give you $20 and a M4L license.

I was just trying to be realistic and anything below a 50% discount isn’t usually realistic.

pulsoc wrote:Until another company can actually compete with Ableton they can do whatever the fuck they want.

I think it's attitudes like that got Ableton to where they are now. During that time, companies like Native Instruments have really stepped up. They have built a much more hands-on "session view" with Maschine which has completely replaced Live as my main production tool.

I have a bit of advice for anyone that gets angry when something they purchased at full price is offered to others at a discount:

Don't buy anything at full price. Simple as that.

beats me, that's a nice idea, but Live and M4L are two separate products. Why should older users be given a better deal on a product that wasn't even in concept when they bought Live? What if someone who's been using Live since v5 is STILL using v5? Should they get an even better deal because they've been "with" the company for so long, or should they have to pay full price because they haven't upgraded once?

To be the most fair in a situation like this, Ableton would have to look at how much money each and every user has spent over the years and offer discounts based on that alone. Is that even possible? Possible, yes. Probable, no.

Not to mention, Cycling74 has a say as well. Do long time users of Max/MSP get an equally sweetened deal to purchase the Live/M4L bundle?

Caveat emptor. If you feel slighted by this promo, look at the three fingers pointing at yourself while you point your finger at Ableton.

kanuck wrote:Put it in this perspective.. in total everyone is getting 30% off.

Normal suite+m4l download= $1000
Normal m4l download= $300
Total discounted= $300

Total price payed= $700

last i checked that's a 30% discount.

In other words: In total everyone is getting 30% off. (Wait, that's not in other words. But it's true.)

Anyway, back to the argument...

^YEAH!!

I CHANGE MY VOTE, I'M MAD AS HELL!!!

My religion has taught me not to be afraid to call someone wrong when it does something, says something, stands for something, or engages in something that violates the values in which I believe. In the text that follows, I won't bother discussing the flaws in Ableton's logic because it surely doesn't use any logic. Who else but Ableton would have the brass to make us the helpless puppets of our demographic labels? No one. And where does that brass come from? It comes from a sure knowledge that it can retreat into its "victim" status if anyone calls it to account.

Ableton is typical of stuporous quacks in its wild invocations to the irrational, the magic, and the fantastic to dramatize its hijinks. Let us not sink to Ableton's level. Let us combat adversarialism by exercising our right to speak out, to denounce Ableton's bait-and-switch tactics as totally unrepresentative of the values of this society.

Ableton's goal is to undermine liberty in the name of liberty. The toll in human suffering and the loss of innocent lives that will ensue are clearly nonissues for it. I unequivocally reject Ableton's demands. And if that seems like a modest claim, I disagree. It's the most radical claim of all.

A central fault line runs through each of Ableton's roorbacks. Specifically, Ableton believes that the sky is falling. Unfortunately, as long as it believes such absurdities, it will continue to commit atrocities. Ableton's innate love of unilateralism occasionally shows through its mask of anti-unilateralism. It vehemently denies that, of course. But it obviously would because every time it gets caught trying to suppress all news that portrays it in a bad light, it promises it'll never do so again. Subsequently, its habitués always jump in and explain that it really shouldn't be blamed even if it does because, as they profess, the peak of fashion is to tinker about with a lot of halfway prescriptions.

In a similar vein, there are two sorts of people in this world. There are those who sweep Ableton's peccadillos under the rug, and there are those who free people from the spell of oligarchism that it has cast over them. Ableton fits neatly into the former category, of course. Ableton is thoroughly gung-ho about absenteeism because it lacks more pressing soapbox issues.

Anything may happen if Ableton is able to peonize and enslave its opponents. Scabrous fomenters of revolution may lash out at everyone and everything in sight. Irascible scofflaws may cheat on taxes. And careless, wicked dopeheads may deny that the academicism "debate" is not a debate. It is a harangue, a politically motivated, brilliantly publicized, featherbrained attack on progressive ideas.

Don't be intimidated by Ableton's threat to authorize, promote, celebrate, and legitimize pugnacious parasitism. It may be obvious but should nonetheless be acknowledged that Ableton certainly believes that it acts in the name of equality and social justice. Unfortunately for it, that's all in its imagination. Ableton needs to get out of that fictional world and get back to reality, where people can see that it always cavils at my attempts to maintain social tranquillity. That's probably because I know some sinister marauders who actually believe that newspapers should report only on items Ableton agrees with. Incredible? Those same people have told me that the sun rises just for it. With such people roaming about, it should come as no surprise to you that Ableton wants us to believe that we can solve all of our problems by giving it lots of money. We might as well toss that money down a well because we'll never see it again. What we will see, however, is that my position is that Ableton's "fund a vast web of sadistic lunkheads, morally crippled, petulant wimps, and the worst types of contentious yo-yos there are" mentality is so pervasive that I feel like I'm going to languish in prison on trumped-up charges. Ableton, in contrast, argues that emotionalism resonates with the body's natural alpha waves. This disagreement merely scratches the surface of the ideological chasm festering between me and Ableton. The only rational way to bridge this chasm is for it to admit that it believes that it is everyone's obligation to attack the very fabric of this nation. That view is anathema to the cause of liberty. If it is not loudly refuted our future will be dire indeed.

Ableton and its coadjutors are the worst kinds of craven, backwards vigilantes there are. This is not set down in complaint against them but merely as analysis. Ableton's morals sound so noble, but in fact Ableton is like a stray pigeon. Pigeons are too self-absorbed to care about anyone else. They poo on people they don't like; they poo on people they don't even know. The only real difference between Ableton and a pigeon is that Ableton intends to regiment the public mind as much as an army regiments the bodies of its soldiers. That's why on a television program last night I heard one of this country's top scientists conclude that, "What our nation needs is more respect for the law, not less." That's exactly what I have so frequently argued, and I am pleased to have my view confirmed by so eminent an individual.

If I understand Ableton's tracts correctly, then Ableton is the hands-down, flat-out, bar-none most cankered renegade I have ever seen. Am I being too harsh for writing that? Maybe I am, but that's really the only way you can push a point through to Ableton. Abusive, brassbound provincials serve as the priests in Ableton's cult of contumelious, patronizing masochism. These "priests" spend their days basking in Ableton's reflected glory, pausing only when Ableton instructs them to rally for a cause that is completely void of moral, ethical, or legal validity. What could be more bumptious? To help answer that question I will offer a single anecdote. A few weeks ago, I overheard some callous stool pigeon tell everyone who passed by that Ableton never engages in disgusting, foolhardy, or revolting politics. Astounded, I asked this person if he realized that I have had enough of Ableton's stolid wisecracks. Not only was his answer "no", but it was also news to him that Ableton recently stated that shrewish wheeler-dealers make the best scoutmasters and schoolteachers. It said that with a straight face, without even cracking a smile or suppressing a giggle. It said it as if it meant it. That's scary because it decries or dismisses capitalism, technology, industrialization, and systems of government borne of Enlightenment ideas about the dignity and freedom of human beings. These are the things that Ableton fears because they are wedded to individual initiative and responsibility.

Ableton keeps saying that I and others who think it's a maladroit dunderhead are secretly using etheric attachment cords to drain people's karmic energy. This is exemplary of the nonsensical rhetoric and scaremongering that typifies the language of inconsiderate philosophasters and other unenlightened pissants. The implications of villainous, ridiculous mercantalism may seem theoretical, but they have concrete meaning for thousands of people. Ableton may find it inconceivable that for all its bombast about freedom, liberty, and tolerance, it still wants to replace Robert's Rules of Order with "facilitated consensus building" at all important meetings, but it'll come to its senses one day. To get even the simplest message into the consciousness of the worst sorts of hideous, merciless adolescents there are it has to be repeated at least fifty times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following fifty times, but Ableton likes doctoring evidence and classification systems and making lousy generalizations to support small-minded, preconceived views, which puts it somewhere between a selfish scatterbrain and a sophomoric bugger on the frotteurism org chart. Ableton's words are worse than the Black Death of olden times. That's all I have to say. Thank you for reading this letter.

Maybe Ableton should take a page from Apple’s playbook.

Logic or Logic Express. Those are your options, period.

Major upgrade every 3-5 years.

No random discounts ever.

Simple. These types of debates don’t happen.

beats me wrote:Maybe Ableton should take a page from Apple’s playbook.

Logic or Logic Express. Those are your options, period.

Major upgrade every 3-5 years.

No random discounts ever.

Simple. These types of debates don’t happen.

or do it the flstudio way... many updates with many new features every few months.... and all of these with stability.

I think this issue highlights the rather dated sales model most (and not just ableton) employ. I say give a limited version of the software for free and sell support packages and unlock better features. I’m sure many people would pay $150 per year for all features unlocked, free upgrades and versions for a year.

Currently the problem for users of version 8 is that…these people are already using LIVE. Ableton need to tempt new users and those who may have drifted away… all the more for giving away a locked version as above.

Maybe they will wait to offer users of 8 a decent deal when 9 rolls out. Who knows...

beats me wrote:I was just trying to be realistic and anything below a 50% discount isn’t usually realistic.

Anything below a 50% discount isn't usually realistic, but giving it away free (100% discount) to new users is reality.

How'd that happen????

does the free M4L apply to buying from another user?

if so, let's just all agree to buy someone else's Suite 8 serial, register it, and get our free copies of M4L.

for instance, you and your friend both have Suite 8. you sell your serial to him for $1 and vice versa. according to the M4L page, the deal is good for "any purchase of Suite 8". i could be reading that wrong of course but i would think that the free M4L applies to any new registration of a Suite 8 serial number???