RANT HERE: What is a DJ?

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:16 pm

I DO miss being a musician.

But I AM getting such a buzz with this Live stuff. I feel a million times more creative, everyone enjoys (most!) everything I do, and I do it all myself without pain-in-the-ass ego clashing!

I'm now trying to figure a tasteful way to bring my percussion/drumming into my DJing. That Roland SPD-S is looking pretty sweet. Or triggering Live samples from my aging Roland TD-5.

Anyone doing anything similar?

scot7y1 · Post by **scot7y1** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:40 pm

Without dj's producers wouldn't have people promoting their music. Producers are so busy in the studio they don't have time to travel the world playing to thousands of people. Producers take credit for the music and leave all the shaggin women and the lifestyle to us dj's!haha

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:04 pm

So many good parts of this thread to respond to... but gunna pick one
many have overlooked cause of the emotion in it....

ok the real answer is a frustrated musician or the poor mans minstrel?
you guys really need to learn to play an instrument and stop taking
money under false pretences......

money under false pretences......
or money out of the economy that was spread thin already....

I know around here the live band scene has been crushed. "Here" is
around Byron Bay North Coast NSW, tourist town and lots of broke
creative people. Used to be a huge nest of musicians, musician capital.

It was bad enough before with venues paying local bands in peanuts....
but now it's all over.... No one forms a band with more then 3 members
anymore because after the split you don't get enough to pay petrol to get
to the gig.

Sure it's what people want....

Just sad live music has taken such a hit.

And yes... more DJ's should play live sets.... we've got Live.... why cut up
tunes into bits in it when u can just as easy make killer loops and get a
keyboard for improv or moving the groove around. (yeah mastering a
tune fully then cutting it up is better quality... but "Live" or "music
performance" is more then just jumping around, having energy and
presence... surely...)

-Ben

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:27 pm

As a real hater of the single child attitude of most dj´s my initial respect for this kind of people was low...but now after 17 years tech/house movement and listening and dancing to lots of good and (not dancing to)bad DJ´s i ve to state that there is a musical quality in the work of a good dj that is attached to a different musical goal than the work of the normal producer/musican. The good Dj is doing the long tention bow by selecting the wright tracks for the given audience... an overstored story that holds a set together.. As a musican you are much more related to the burn baby burn tradition... A live set that is over one hour is allways boring... while dj sets can become interesting after 3 hours....
I now really would like to be dj to learn more about the long bow...

karl · Post by **karl** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:48 pm

This is so funny,,we can argue all day and its not gonna change a thing,dj-producer-engineer-it dont matter,most of the major dance music producers end up dj-ing in the end,or vice versa,,there all peeps just doing what they love doing,,and the name d.j is an old fashioned name representing disc jockey,,i personally think its a shit name,,because a lot of the dj,s these days are incorperating so much in 2 there sets and using so much of todays cutting technology,,i write music,,i produce it,,engineer and finalise my music,,i play guitar,piano,and a little sax,,i can sing,,i then play my tracks out in the club when i dj,,what does that make me....have fun whatever ya doing

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:55 pm

gaspode wrote:While I will concede the points that it may be nothing like playing a chord on a guitar... it is entirely possible to play/scratch a chord on two decks... Not that this is usually useful from a DJ'ing perspective... from a 'turntablist' it is... turntables can be just as musical an instrument as anything... and if you ever get the chance to see somebody compose an entire song with one turntable (perhaps two) and a series of stomp box loop effects I'd suggest taking it...

Yeah, I seen the bloke who cuts for Kanye West I think it was. Pretty impressive. I do think the stupid fast scratching tends to get a little tired very quickly but some of what he did in the clip was insane.

I'm a big fan of mash-ups as well. Have you heard heard the Raiding The 20th Century mix by Strictly Kev? It's awesome. I think it's on DJ Food's site. Try googling.

Personally my advice is to stop being so clique... it really isn't that cool to be down on others anyways... and there isn't any valid reason for group x to prop themselves up over group y... can't we all just get along?

Only reason is we been here longer!

Nah, I agree with you... the point about each song a DJ plays being like a note was a very good one though. Food for thought.

-Paws

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:11 pm

There's a great discussion about the issues facing laptop musicians/DJs/remixers/etc here:

http://www.fylkingen.se/hz/n4/cascone.html

However academic and written in typical "artspeak" style", it's still an interesting discussion piece.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:48 pm

Siddhu - can you translate academic-speak?

This article may have merit, but I can't understand it.

gaspode · Post by **gaspode** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:10 pm

hambone1 wrote:Siddhu - can you translate academic-speak?

This article may have merit, but I can't understand it.

I think what the article is trying to say... through a few layers of BS... is that essentially electronic music is only for people who have not been saturated with Pop music. The reason for this is that pop music requires more of a physical show than it does a musical one... so for the lonely nerd mixing music on a laptop there isn't a whole lot to look at...

What I mostly got out of it was somebody trying to blame the recording industry for the poor electronic music reception found in most areas. Perhaps more the issue is the poor performances, lack of understanding of what the electronic musician is doing or a miscommunication to the venue about what is going on and being played...

I do agree that it is hard to maintain interest, excitement and understanding when you're behind a laptop or controlling a drum machine... when an audience watches a drummer, guitarist, singer etc... they can see specifically the energy and excitement that is going into the song by the band... somebody who is sitting at a drum machine or laptop though... who is triggering loops and patterns, is an order of magnitude more complicated and does not translate cleanly into an audience's audio/visual experience... for all intents and purposes it looks like some dude sitting behind a desk doing what amounts to nothing... so why would the audience want to pay for that... which is likely why some of the more interesting and entertaining electronic musicians have coupled there music with light shows and processed video... at least it gives you some form of visual way to interact with the music... and at least seems to be more value added to the performance...

Thinking back to a beck show... I remember he didn't feel like performing for one show... so he came out with a tape player and just played his tape into the microphone... the audience was outraged... they had not only paid to hear the performance... but also paid to see it... and be part of it...

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:16 pm

hambone1 wrote:As an ex-musician who couldn't make ends meet, I've resorted to DJing with Live. And I use many of my musician skills to make this happen, and my day-job graphic designer/3d skills are helping a lot with the big-screen video and sequenced lighting.

And I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks about it, except the paying people out shaking their booties on the dance floor and having a great time.

I think DJing is a bit of a misnomer. Anyone can spin records, CDs, digital, whatever. But working the audience with skill and talent is something different.

Any ideas for a new name?

entertainer

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:11 pm

yeah in some respect we are all entertainers and I think it doesn't matter whether you are on a laptop, turntables, or in a band, or you don't even perform but you wrote the song I think all of these things are based on talent skill and should be respected. what I don't understand is where the current idenity crisis came from.

before there were songwriters, producers, bands,electronic musicians, remixers, and djs....living all happily together, I don't see the confusion but ever since electronic musicians started using laptops they started calling themselves djs, it's kind of weird, I never saw anybody doing the same thing for all of those years on a desktop computer calling themself a dj, even though thats how everybody was doing their shows, with a desktop....all of a sudden Laptop = dj. it doesn't seem like it's an artistic issue at all, it seems like people just want that name.

so I don't know what happened to the 'Remixer' that poor bloke just disappeared cause now all the people doing remixes are 'djs'. people used
to have pride in calling themselves an electronic musician, especialy if they used a computer to do it but no more, now everybody wants to be a dj. it reminds me of the rash of people hollering over drum/bass music that call themselves MCs, i mean most of these cats dont' even rap just hollering over the beats but they carry the mc title I guess life is just funny like that.

SIXTO · Post by **SIXTO** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:36 pm

there is nothing worse then a good producer trying to dj when they cant.... but some can... I went to a drum and bass party the other night... I went to see Dillinja, which is a great producer... but when I heard him dj... I left the club.. his mixing was poor, track selection sucked cause it was all about rewinds of big tracks... No journey whatso ever....

In the other room was Josh Wink, which is a great producer and a great dj... But also in his own words,, he said he was tired of playing other peoples tracks and wanted to go 100% live......

all in all... I do believe a "good" dj is a musician...

You have to take peoples mind and turn them into instruments on the dance floor,, thats the talent of a dj... IMO

I know when I had a good night is when I leave the club and reality hits hard and you realize your back on earth...

jhs · Post by **jhs** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:43 pm

unfortunately, i could only stomach reading up to the second page.. i mix on turntables as well as make beats on ableton. i believe a dj is a combination of musical showcase and entertainment. i personally dj because its fun.. i like collecting new music, and i like playing it for people that dont collect. i also happen to be able to string it along nicely and continously! if i was into top 40 pop, then i'd find what i thought the best pop would be and play it for who wants to listen.

you guys really need to step back and look at the facts. countless djs have spun mega 8 hour sets and have kept the crowd moving the entire time. this is near impossible to do with a live band. i find mostly the people who complain about the talent vs. output ratio when it comes to djing vs. live performance show up to events to observe, not to have fun.

luckily, i dont have this mindset & because of this i can show up at a shit club and rock out to top 40 and still have fun.

rules to enjoying music:

1. dont give a shit about music you dont listen to
2. dont give a shit about how the music is made
3. dont waste your time justifying why you dont listen to a certain style
4. listen to what feels right

Darrel855 · Post by **Darrel855** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:45 pm

Didnt the Beatles start out as a cover band? The only thing that makes a real DJ is playing good music for the crowd and haveing a great time. And the best part of being a DJ is the CASH THE MONEY AND THE HOES

SIXTO · Post by **SIXTO** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:10 pm

Thats one thing I forgot,,, those DJ's that spin marathon sets... I saw Danny T spin a 25 hour set in New York years ago.... 25 HOURS and it was off the hook..... to me that is truly amazing...

RANT HERE: What is a DJ?

"Grain, Sequence, System"