Ableton Forum

It's been known for a long time that there is nothing new under the sun.

I'm a linguist by day (and night, really), so I've spent a good chunk of my time worrying about how meaning works in language, and come to (read and accepted) the conclusion that meaning is always ascribed by the hearer with no access to the speaker's actual intentions. So you can't really say that a given statement has such-and-such meaning: you can say it was produced with the intention to provoke a certain meaning in its receiver... but for this to work the two have to share a certain frame of reference, know that this combination of sounds refer to this object or concept, and to know when it is customary to invoke such references, and how. Reference, meaning, is not part of the sound of spoken language.. it's something that happens when a person with the right knowledge hears that sound. Case in point: Eliza. Eliza didn't "know" what she was saying, but she came close enough to fool some people.

And I think music is the same, I know what counts for me, what works, and you know what counts for you, and you can get that from something someone else has meticulously crafted or it can just happen by accident. I think that's the last definition on the Wikipedia list there... music is experienced, not made.

I haven't read the thread, but I'll say no, it does not *need* them.
It needs a solid groove, and THAT is what people WILL dance to – way longer than they "dance to" a drop.

Think about funk, for example.
Think about those old, super-groovy James Brown tracks that go on and on.
They make you wanna shake your booty to no end, and there is no "breakdown / drop".

Drops are "needed" if you have an otherwise shit track.

Personally, I dislike pretty strongly what one could call a "drop-driven" electronic music.

what are you talking about... JB was the king of breakdowns !
funky music relies heavily on breakdowns...
(not always but it's one of the major tools..)
if a groove is strong then the listener is already counting..
it'll come back from the breakdown with more power..
1...22....333....4444... hit it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5DTznu-9v0

When I had my breakdown just after my first wife left me in 1999 my electronic music was just as shite as ever unfortunately.

3dot... wrote:what are you talking about... JB was the king of breakdowns !
funky music relies heavily on breakdowns...
(not always but it's one of the major tools..)
if a groove is strong then the listener is already counting..
it'll come back from the breakdown with more power..
1...22....333....4444... hit it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5DTznu-9v0

Lets not confuse breaks and breakdowns. Couldn't be more different.

As an incredibly offensive generalisation, I find that the bigger the breakdown, the 'whiter' the dance music...

you can just fade out and fade in again. strange, but works

beatmunga wrote:When I had my breakdown just after my first wife left me in 1999 my electronic music was just as shite as ever unfortunately.

sorry to hear about that..

beatmunga wrote: Lets not confuse breaks and breakdowns. Couldn't be more different.

not confused ..
a "breakdown" is the immediate drop in the energy of a groove..
there doesn't have to be silence.. a breakdown can be a playing part..

a breakbeat is taking a small sample of a longer groove/beat and making a new part out of it

Last time i checked a DJ forum, they advised to cut out the breaks from the tracks, because every track has this break, and they only need a break every 30 minutes, or longer, they want to have the crowd dancing and freaking out. But it depends on genere /audience - if you do club music - do less breaks, or even none.

3dot... wrote:

beatmunga wrote: Lets not confuse breaks and breakdowns. Couldn't be more different.

not confused ..
a "breakdown" is the immediate drop in the energy of a groove..
there doesn't have to be silence.. a breakdown can be a playing part..

a breakbeat is taking a small sample of a longer groove/beat and making a new part out of it

In my neck of the woods, 'break' implies stripping down to the drums, possibly bass, to let the funkyness of the rhythm come through. Like James Brown.

A 'breakdown' is the exact opposite - dropping the drums out and leaving mids and highs in place (leads, pads etc), which very often happens about 2/3 of the way through the track, before kicking back with the beat for the last quarter. Like in every trance record ever made.

I thought this was universally accepted. Apologies if I'm wrong.

funken wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZShoE2OLmc

Abso-bloody-exactly. That's a break.

As fine a groove as has ever been made.

well...you see...
where I'm from...that's not a break..
a break is (traditionally) when everyone moves out of the way to let the rhythm section get some..
then come back in to the beat...
hence.. break-beat...

in electronic music..
a "break-down" is afaik (aside from the mental state) when there's a SUDDEN removal of most of the playing parts/energy..
while leaving some percussive element..

those 2 terms seem to mean just about the same to me..
(which differ from the term "breakbeat" as a genre)


sorry for the confusion..

3dot... wrote:well...you see...
where I'm from...that's not a break..
a break is (traditionally) when everyone moves out of the way to let the rhythm section get some..
then come back in to the beat...
hence.. break-beat...

in electronic music..
a "break-down" is afaik (aside from the mental state) when there's a SUDDEN removal of most of the playing parts/energy..
while leaving some percussive element..

those 2 terms seem to mean just about the same to me..
(which differ from the term "breakbeat" as a genre)


sorry for the confusion..

Yes, I can go on Wikipedia too, where right after that bit it also quotes the excellent Brewster and Broughton's 'How To Djay Properly':

"Breaks are for the drummer; breakdowns are for hands in the air".

Q.E.D.