Ableton Forum

I suspect this sound that some hear might be plugin latency.
It seems as my Live projects become bigger, so does individual track latency.
It certainly colors and mud up the sound.

For our solution I think we have to record the sends to seperate audio tracks
with a click on the first beat. With this click, adjust the play positions to zero.

Here is one of those projects:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wjiN6U2NubQ

In this example only Lives native plugs are used. With 3rd party plugs,
its sometimes even more. Ableton support are being very helpfull and quick to respond,
and we are working on finding solutions and tweaks.
However, I dont know how this plugin latency is compared to other daws.

There's definitely something to the sound "rumors". My projects always get pretty big and there's a "graininess" that I can't figure out. It's useless to argue about though. For some reason people think that nulling one track somehow proves that there's nothing wrong with 85+ tracks with lots of native and 3rd party vsti/fx

Sound quality hasn't been what has made me recently pick up Studio One though. It's the inability of Ableton to perform correctly at all with large projects. My last track wouldn't even export. I had to resample my track inside of ableton and drag it to my desktop through ableton's browser. This was even AFTER I flattened and rendered a majority of the project to audio. Tech support couldn't help me out either.

William wrote:There's definitely something to the sound "rumors". My projects always get pretty big and there's a "graininess" that I can't figure out. It's useless to argue about though. For some reason people think that nulling one track somehow proves that there's nothing wrong with 85+ tracks with lots of native and 3rd party vsti/fx

Our largest projects are something like that. Other projects with
20 - 30 tracks doesnt seem to have as much track and send latency
as the big ones. Hmm.. More investigation is needed.

Man I wonder what you guys are doing with 85+ tracks...

I am severely limited by my computer specs, so I make do with very few, and I'm also a simple hobby musician. But DAMN! 85+ ??? Unless you're micing an orchestra I just can't imagine. Would love to go into one of your studios and see what all is going on.

Forgive the incredulity!

Cheers!

Here is a little part of an article regards testing your DAW:

The next test is easier and almost foolproof-the null test, also known as the perfect clone test: Any workstation that can mix should be able to combine two files and invert polarity (phase). A successful null test proves that the digital input section, output section, and processing section of your workstation are neutral to sound. Start with a piece of music in a file on your hard disk. Feed the music out of the system and back in and re-record while you are playing back. (If the DAW cannot simultaneously record while playing back, it's probably not worth buying anyway). Bring the new "captured" sound into an EDL (edit decision list, or playlist), and line it up with the original sound, down to absolute sample accuracy. Then reverse the polarity of one of the two files, play and mix them together at unity gain. You should hear absolutely no sound. If you do hear sound, then your workstation is not able to produce perfect clones. The null test is almost 100% foolproof; a mad scientist might create a system with a perfectly complementary linear distortion on its input and output and which nulls the two distortions out but the truth will out before too long.

Follow these instructions and see what your results are !

If you like to know more and read the full article, leave a message in this thread...

we've been playing with null tests for years. no DAW differences have been found.

some soft skull please chime in with "null tests are lame, they don't prove anything." I love it when they write that.

In case someone doesn't believe in this null-test.
Here is the link to the full 7-part article : http://www.digido.com/more-bits-please.html

Who is this Bob Katz guy...

Ever notice how somehow every "Which DAW sounds Better" thread seems a little different from the other. I still maintain though that the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Therefore if the majority of listeners say this DAW (or that DAW) sounds better then it is....simple. End of the argument.

No scientific experiments and data needed. It doesn't even matter if scientifically it can be proven that in fact it is not the better one. As long as it sounds better then it is IMO.

which is exactly why Pop music is the best. THE BEST!

H20nly wrote:which is exactly why Pop music is the best. THE BEST!

ze2be wrote:I suspect this sound that some hear might be plugin latency.
It seems as my Live projects become bigger, so does individual track latency.
It certainly colors and mud up the sound.

Good job! It only took you three years to discover what we were telling you 3 years ago...

so by posting more I enlarge my penis ?