Live music is killing music!

[Angstrom]

Angstrom: brilliantly put. However, not everyone, even every teen, sees strutting macho sexuality as cool. Some find it threatening, others find it crass. Some teens find an emotionless, cold, well dressed one finger synth player the epitome of cool. I know I did as a teen, and so did millions of others like me in the 80s (I realise that this is a very European thing - the US never really bought it).

yeah, what I meant was ... whatever thing you are into - you want to see that represented to its maximum degree. The performer represents you, as the protagonist in your own psychodrama. This is why music/youth movements like Punk, Goth, Industrial, straight edge, metal, (etc) get such vehement proponents ... it's not because the music is so good, it's because it means so much to them. It is them, as they want to be.

As an aside: Russell Brand was once asked how he was so popular with women, he answered "it's simple, just represent what's missing in their lives"

Despite my cynicism of live popular music I have always maintained that there were only two acts in the world that I would like to see live - James Brown and Kraftwerk.

Perhaps these represent the two extremes of the wish fulfilment spectrum for me - James the passionate, instinctive, funky, gaudy, bust a move sex machine vs Kraftwerk the cerebral, intellectual, clinical, motionless well dressed technicians.

Left it too late for The Hardest Working Man in Show Business, sadly. The Kraftwerk lineup has changed almost to the point of irrelevance now. But at their peak, these acts had a stage prescence that spoke to me, even through the TV screen.

It didn't hurt that their music was the dogs bollocks, too.

Sadly by the time I saw James Brown he was past his prime and addicted to doing retro-medleys rather than 15 minute groove workouts.
I saw Bootsy and Phelps Collins in about 94 and they were still rockin it with a funky hot show, Bootsy getting all fevered up and diving into the crowd "I gotta be with my people", and the band trying to persuade him back onto the stage ... and he keeps turning back. Hilarious. Just as fake as the old J.B. cape shenanigans, and just as entertaining. I guess it comes from the gospel tradition. I love that pantomime shit.

[beats me]

Perhaps some alternative topics on this subject could be cheap software killed musicianship and visual tech killed performance.

But I think it takes a special kind of asshole to just stand on stage like a lump in front of thousands of people. How can you be that bored and unmoved by your own music in that setting?

[Angstrom]

lets face it - it takes a special kind of asshole to want to get on stage and do anything.

we have the wrong kind of special assholes is the problem

[aisling]

Wow! Yeah, now let's get this party STARTED!

Bring back Polka.

evaodland, did you have that attitude when you were playing on stage? People pick up on that you know.

Seriously, though, bring back polka.

I agree polka...lol...actually I was a pretty good performer for a long time...I loved playing music for people and helping others make music, I had some mild successes...but eventually a series of disappointments and personal realizations starting about 7 years ago, left me sort of jaded in the end...basically the dream ended...a dream that started when I was 12 or so....I worked hard and tried to break loose and make a career and a life of music...it didn't happen...not for lack of trying but for lack of genuine unique talent or that "sparkle"....some people have some don't...I don't, I finally accepted that. So yeah I still feel disappointed at opportunities lost...had other decisions been made that the ones that were maybe you all would be remixing me...but...it is what it is. THere wasn't attitude...just the curse of being adequate. I was fortunate that I rubbed shoulders with people that went on to have that hit, to have that career...I can say I was there in Minneapolis in the 80's mixing it up with Husker DU, Replacements, Soul Asylum, Trip Shakesphere (precursor to Semi Sonic) and a host of other influencer and super talented people....the band I was in at the time had a chance...and we dropped the ball..but I kept going...for another 25 years...the public eyeball never looked my way...but only briefly...that is how it goes...sometimes despite doing all the right things, it still simply doesn't happen...that is the inescapable truth. We may say we all don't care about success or fame and that the act of creating music transcends all that....that may be nice to say but in the end, it doesn't pay the bills, put food on the table, buy clothes for the kids...and if you create the worlds most awesome piece of music and no one hears it...what does it matter then? I chalk it up to history and try to remember the great friends I made, the fun gigs and awesome music...I leave behind the nights of gut wrenching tears of failure and the hurt I caused to others while I tried to chase a dream that was not to be...I sound defeated...because I am...but for every thousands of musicians like me a handful find that dream realized....and that is why I love them....all of them....the dreamers out there living the "horror and the glory". So EDM? Yah....there is horror and glory but the scene is definitely more open and less snobbish than rock...the people are nice and into each other and at this time in my life it is most welcome.

Felt like I was looking at my self in the mirror reading this, same story, just a different place...Philly.

[beatmunga]

Perhaps some alternative topics on this subject could be cheap software killed musicianship and visual tech killed performance.

But I think it takes a special kind of asshole to just stand on stage like a lump in front of thousands of people. How can you be that bored and unmoved by your own music in that setting?

The only live DVD I own (apart from the ubiquitous Live Aid and Woodstock) is Kraftwerk's 'Minimum/Maximum'. Over 3 hours of 4 middle aged German men dressed in black standing motionless behind laptops. Decidedly lo-fi but arresting visuals behind them. Endlessly fascinating. The crowd love it.

The only bad side is the inevitable sea of mobile phone screens held aloft so that people can boast about their great night out on the interwebs.

Which begs the question; if gigs are so involving and only make sense in the moment, why does everyone want to record the magic in the shittest audio/visual quality available? What's all that about?

[Angstrom]

they are making it their own. they want to absorb the essence of it personally and claim it as representing them. I'm sure there must be an Alain DeBotton book on this phenomenon. Probably a chapter in Religion for Atheists.

by shooting it on a shitty phonecam and then putting it on facebook they are saying to the world (their peers) : "this is me, this is my tribe, this is what I represent, this is who I am and my personality acted out ... by old german men"

[beatmunga]

they are making it their own. they want to absorb the essence of it personally and claim it as representing them. I'm sure there must be an Alain DeBotton book on this phenomenon. Probably a chapter in Religion for Atheists.

by shooting it on a shitty phonecam and then putting it on facebook they are saying to the world (their peers) : "this is me, this is my tribe, this is what I represent, this is who I am and my personality acted out ... by old german men"

I understand the almost religious transcendence of communal music and dancing. It's just a shame that we humans feel the need to fixate on another human form in a spotlight whom we feel personifies our ecstasy.

This was the great thing about the UK Rave scene from 88 - 92. Truly democratic - people faced each other, not the stage. There often was no stage. The DJs names were on the flyers but many people did not know what they looked like. Whether they where black or white even. Hell, I remember being shocked at finding out that DJ Rapp was a female the third time I was at a rave she was playing at.

There's a brilliant bit I remember on the commentary for the DVD of 24 Hour Party People where the late Tony Wilson says something along the lines of 'for a while the democracy of dance music was really something new, and a change from staring at 4 dickheads with drums/guitars in a spotlight. It wasn't too long though before everyone was staring at one dickhead behind some decks in a spotlight'.

[Cymatic Kicks]

Have you ever been to The Prodigy show? If you have you would never complain about live sound quality...

Really unfortunate that you have picked the one act in the world that I have seen more than once. 3 times in fact.

Woah there fella, you've seen one act more than once and you're an authority on music be it live or a dj? My favorite bands I've seen over 70 times each, and that's not even that much compared to a lot of people I know.

People have bad nights and good nights, some are stellar, some are duds. That is in the nature of live music.

I can't really see any validity of anything you say if this is what you're basing things on.

[Angstrom]

I understand the almost religious transcendence of communal music and dancing. It's just a shame that we humans feel the need to fixate on another human form in a spotlight whom we feel personifies our ecstasy.

I don't look at it in the "it's a shame" framework, I look at it anthropologically. I'd say my point of view on personal transference is "It's interesting"

Our current celeb culture might cast a standard audience-performer relationship as shameful star-fucking, but on the flip side: one of the bad things about the rave scene was all that energy was massively unfocused. It was like being at a giant powerful ritual about nothing.

I was there. Just because the audiences's chemistry was so scrambled that their own eyes weren't even pointing in the same direction ... that doesn't make it an egalitarian people's movement.
A lot of rose-tinted bullshit is talked about that scene.

The human animal desires a focus, so big name DJ worship and MCs sprang into being.
There's no good reason to look at Sasha pointing, but he performs a valuable anthropological role. It's in no way "a shame", the performer or DJ becomes a ritualistic conductor that potentiates the whole thing.

[beatmunga]

My favorite bands I've seen over 70 times each, and that's not even that much compared to a lot of people I know

You all have my sympathy.

Isn't that a bit like having beans on toast for your tea three times a week? Perhaps try some other bands. Big old world out there.

[Cymatic Kicks]

My favorite bands I've seen over 70 times each, and that's not even that much compared to a lot of people I know

You all have my sympathy.

Isn't that a bit like having beans on toast for your tea three times a week? Perhaps try some other bands. Big old world out there.

No, not at all, every single one of those live shows has been vastly different. That's the point of live music, it's live. I don't go see acts that create the same thing over and over again.

I don't know how you could possibly base an opinion on an act by seeing it once. One DJ I've been liking more and more over the last couple of years is Bonobo, and every single time I've seen him it's been very very different.

I say to you as well - it's a big world out there, immerse yourself.

[beatmunga]

I understand the almost religious transcendence of communal music and dancing. It's just a shame that we humans feel the need to fixate on another human form in a spotlight whom we feel personifies our ecstasy.

I don't look at it in the "it's a shame" framework, I look at it anthropologically. I'd say my point of view on personal transference is "It's interesting"

Our current celeb culture might cast a standard audience-performer relationship as shameful star-fucking, but on the flip side: one of the bad things about the rave scene was all that energy was massively unfocused. It was like being at a giant powerful ritual about nothing.

I was there. Just because the audiences's chemistry was so scrambled that their own eyes weren't even pointing in the same direction ... that doesn't make it an egalitarian people's movement.
A lot of rose-tinted bullshit is talked about that scene.

The human animal desires a focus, so big name DJ worship and MCs sprang into being.
There's no good reason to look at Sasha pointing, but he performs a valuable anthropological role. It's in no way "a shame", the performer or DJ becomes a ritualistic conductor that potentiates the whole thing.

Sasha gets a lot of blame, but going back to my previous point about punter's individual responsibility, it was the embarassing plonkers who would take their girlfriends up to him to get a kiss from 'the man' that kick started all of that DJ hero worship. Stupid, shallow, miss the point bastards. And look where we are now. David Guetta.

Perhaps this reluctance of mine to accept the typical live band (or DJ) face-the-front hero worship experience is a reflection on my atheism. Be suspicious of 'chosen ones'. However, my fond memories of the Rave scene (which, you are right, are no doubt rose tinted bullshit) do hint at some sort of quasi-religious experience that I am more comfortable with. Not sure which religion would be an appropriate analogy. Most religions have individual human-like or anthropomorphic heros. And look at the mess they cause...

[beats me]

Bonobo

Love his music. Haven’t seen him DJ. Saw him perform live. Great show but quite different from his recordings because he actually adds musicians to his live shows when it’s mostly just him in the studio. Possibly unshocking, but the songs he played live that are more of the electronica feel on his recordings sounded kind of weak and flat when played with real musicians. He used some loops and samples where needed but the substituted live instruments couldn’t cut it compared to the studio recording. This might have been the result of a bad mixer tech, dunno. But also the songs from the recordings that have more of a live band feel sounded stellar with the live band.

Also to his credit Bonobo is one dude but on stage with the band he stayed in back playing either bass or keyboard. In fact it took me awhile to figure out which one he was, not at all about being the focus or center of attention. I respect that.

[beats me]

Perhaps some alternative topics on this subject could be cheap software killed musicianship and visual tech killed performance.

But I think it takes a special kind of asshole to just stand on stage like a lump in front of thousands of people. How can you be that bored and unmoved by your own music in that setting?

The only live DVD I own (apart from the ubiquitous Live Aid and Woodstock) is Kraftwerk's 'Minimum/Maximum'. Over 3 hours of 4 middle aged German men dressed in black standing motionless behind laptops. Decidedly lo-fi but arresting visuals behind them. Endlessly fascinating. The crowd love it.

I think that’s part of Kraftwerk’s long established persona and shtick (for lack of a better term), emotionless beings part of the machinery that makes the music.

I’m talking more about musicians or DJs that are on stage looking like they have the most boring job on earth, a common occurrence with old school rave DJs from the 90’s who are still managing to get gigs based mostly on nostalgia. But from what I've been told for some of them they did the same lifeless performance even at their prime. There should be a special circle of hell for rock star DJs who make a killing but can't get into the music they are playing.

[Sage]

"There's nothing worse than an ageing hipster."