Ableton Forum

I think what matters is people's expectations, & how closely that matches what they experience in a performance.

If they go to a concert expecting to see musicians playing "real" instruments in real time (think a Folk or traditional Rock act), then their expectation is met if what they see are musicians simply playing their instruments.

If their expectation is to see a "show", if it's been hyped, then that's what they are expecting to see.

Electronic music can be difficult due to the lack of recognizable instruments & demonstrable "playing". Many electronic acts make up for this less than scintillating aspect by adding additional musicians &/or visuals/theatrics.

The size of the venue is a big factor also. A small electronic combo or solo artist can hold the attention of a small group of people without too much difficulty is the music is good & the set isn't too long. This is even easier if the artists can engage the audience on a personal level.

This becomes increasingly difficult as the audience numbers increase, due in some part to the distraction of being in a horde of people (many of whom are not really there for the music anyway, but attend because it's the place to be for that night). The further away from the performers, the more difficult it is to engage them in any meaningful way. You're experience is one of just stuck in a crowd.

The DJ escaped this requirement to hold people's attention becasue the expectation was set in advance: "It's about the music, not me as a performer" This has helped DJ events to reach huge audiences without the need for a massive show element. Of course big DJ events do have such show elements, but almost any event with a big budget does.

Bottom line: staring into a laptop with nothing else occurring (especially while hunched over a navel-height table) is NOT going to engage anyone as a "performance", even though it is a genuine concert. It would be best to conduct such a show in complete darkness if the focus is strictly the music. As soon as you allow any sensory input other than the music, that becomes part of the performance, & thus us subject to the audiences expectations.

oblique strategies wrote:I think what matters is people's expectations, & how closely that matches what they experience in a performance.

If they go to a concert expecting to see musicians playing "real" instruments in real time (think a Folk or traditional Rock act), then their expectation is met if what they see are musicians simply playing their instruments.

If their expectation is to see a "show", if it's been hyped, then that's what they are expecting to see.

Electronic music can be difficult due to the lack of recognizable instruments & demonstrable "playing". Many electronic acts make up for this less than scintillating aspect by adding additional musicians &/or visuals/theatrics.

The size of the venue is a big factor also. A small electronic combo or solo artist can hold the attention of a small group of people without too much difficulty is the music is good & the set isn't too long. This is even easier if the artists can engage the audience on a personal level.

This becomes increasingly difficult as the audience numbers increase, due in some part to the distraction of being in a horde of people (many of whom are not really there for the music anyway, but attend because it's the place to be for that night). The further away from the performers, the more difficult it is to engage them in any meaningful way. You're experience is one of just stuck in a crowd.

The DJ escaped this requirement to hold people's attention becasue the expectation was set in advance: "It's about the music, not me as a performer" This has helped DJ events to reach huge audiences without the need for a massive show element. Of course big DJ events do have such show elements, but almost any event with a big budget does.

Bottom line: staring into a laptop with nothing else occurring (especially while hunched over a navel-height table) is NOT going to engage anyone as a "performance", even though it is a genuine concert. It would be best to conduct such a show in complete darkness if the focus is strictly the music. As soon as you allow any sensory input other than the music, that becomes part of the performance, & thus us subject to the audiences expectations.

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Bottom line: staring into a laptop with nothing else occurring (especially while hunched over a navel-height table) is NOT going to engage anyone as a "performance", even though it is a genuine concert.

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If the music is interesting enough it should be enough.

But I think your spot on about setting up people expectations.

If you start out as a theatrical act you will DIE as a theatrical act.

KISS tried to take off their make up but now it's back on. People that go see
KISS expect a show.

People that go see the Rolling Stones expect a musical performance.

Garbage style you pricks.now suck me off!!!!

I’m just going to go ahead and be that guy.

Once every year or two there is a song that becomes hugely popular that I just don’t get why it polarizes the masses. It’s no reflection on the production or the artist personally or musically. To me this is the Korean Ricky Martin’s Living La Vida Loca set to techno music.

From the gushing about the video on the first page I fully expected to be blown away visually. There’s nothing to be blown away by. It’s a dude doing goofy dancing in different locations. Hardly original or worth getting fixated on over and over.

The message behind the music? LMFAO is 2 albums deep into this kind of message set to far better music.

To play the race card, if this song was released by an American in English the reaction would range from unnoticed to laughable. We just love goofy music when it comes from other countries.

But if it makes people happy, that’s cool. Just sayin’.

beats me wrote:The message behind the music? LMFAO is 2 albums deep into this kind of message set to far better music.

What kind of messages are there in LMFAO's albums? I thought they worked as investors trading stocks before that.

Psy is 6 albums deep by the way and Gangnam Style is not representative of the scope of his music.

beats me wrote:I’m just going to go ahead and be that guy.

Once every year or two there is a song that becomes hugely popular that I just don’t get why it polarizes the masses. It’s no reflection on the production or the artist personally or musically. To me this is the Korean Ricky Martin’s Living La Vida Loca set to techno music.

From the gushing about the video on the first page I fully expected to be blown away visually. There’s nothing to be blown away by. It’s a dude doing goofy dancing in different locations. Hardly original or worth getting fixated on over and over.

The message behind the music? LMFAO is 2 albums deep into this kind of message set to far better music.

To play the race card, if this song was released by an American in English the reaction would range from unnoticed to laughable. We just love goofy music when it comes from other countries.

But if it makes people happy, that’s cool. Just sayin’.

Your post kinda reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQhIMFy-stM

humnumb wrote:

beats me wrote:The message behind the music? LMFAO is 2 albums deep into this kind of message set to far better music.

What kind of messages are there in LMFAO's albums? I thought they worked as investors trading stocks before that.

Psy is 6 albums deep by the way and Gangnam Style is not representative of the scope of his music.

Again, no reflection on the artist and his catalog or history. He wrote a goofy song and made a goofy video that blew up huge. I don’t think he was expecting that.

LMFAO is party music that makes fun of partiers, every track. One of the members is record producer and Motown records founder Berry Gordy’s son. Suppose we should also give them less respect for that in, in the industry.

I am glad I dislike this stuff ((c)rap in general).....one and only one I give props to is Grand Master Flash and the furious five - The Message. That's the only (c)rap I had respect for. I dislike it and hip-hop as well. Not my cup of tea. For me, metal, blues, extreme metal, folk (scandinavian stuff with pagan/black metal roots), dark ambient, old stuff like Isley Brothers (they were good back in the day for the club scene for hooking up lolz). But to each his own.....

PSY - gangnam style ?? , really sounds a lot like Tecnotronics - pump up the jam , to me

ShelLuser wrote:Many people consider the videoclip uber funny. Watch it several times because of it.

Is it possible that the music "grew" on them, eventually breaking down the barrier of "I don't understand a word he/she is singing so I don't like it"?

Yeah, I think the uber funny video and the cheesy dance helped to break down that barrier along with the catchy tune.

Or it could have more to do with this: http://www.racialicious.com/2012/09/20/ ... asian-man/

In general though, beyond a one hit wonder, it's probably near impossible for anyone that doesn't sing in English to gain long term mainstream success in the US.

darkenedsoul wrote:I am glad I dislike this stuff ((c)rap in general).....one and only one I give props to is Grand Master Flash and the furious five - The Message. That's the only (c)rap I had respect for. I dislike it and hip-hop as well. Not my cup of tea. For me, metal, blues, extreme metal, folk (scandinavian stuff with pagan/black metal roots), dark ambient, old stuff like Isley Brothers (they were good back in the day for the club scene for hooking up lolz). But to each his own.....

hense the avatar name...Darkenend soul

delicioso wrote:

ShelLuser wrote:Many people consider the videoclip uber funny. Watch it several times because of it.

Is it possible that the music "grew" on them, eventually breaking down the barrier of "I don't understand a word he/she is singing so I don't like it"?

Yeah, I think the uber funny video and the cheesy dance helped to break down that barrier along with the catchy tune.

Or it could have more to do with this: http://www.racialicious.com/2012/09/20/ ... asian-man/

In general though, beyond a one hit wonder, it's probably near impossible for anyone that doesn't sing in English to gain long term mainstream success in the US.

I think it’s safe to say that if it wasn’t for the video nobody outside of the US would be listening to it. I don’t think it’s just “helped”. It’s the entire reason, whether you now like the song or not.

But I also think this is where things are heading for music in general. There’s so much music out there and unless you have a fat bankroll label promoting you, then the only way to approach upper level success is have a viral video….as if having high end studio productions coming out of your bedroom studio isn’t enough on your plate. You better start partnering up with video producers.

ShelLuser wrote:In case you're interested: In 2.5 hours (at the time of writing) PSY is going to stream a live concert through his YouTube channel. You can see that here (YouTube link).

I have no idea what to expect; right now I only see a counter going backwards; 2.5 hours to go.

Here's the video from that concert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVi2iimv8J8

Someone was flying the Dutch flag!

This video just reminded me of how much I like Korean girls.

8bit Gangnam Style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWbKmS69PBM