Ableton Forum

Please add retina support, at least for text!

I love Apple but I think a retina screen on a computer is a completely unnecessary and extravagant purchase. I’m sure at some point it will become the standard but until then it’s going to be nothing but growing pains for early adopters.

beats me wrote:I love Apple but I think a retina screen on a computer is a completely unnecessary and extravagant purchase. I’m sure at some point it will become the standard but until then it’s going to be nothing but growing pains for early adopters.

My Dad told me a story of when he was young and he was going to buy a reel to reel tape recorder/player. He had a choice to buy a mono or the new "stereo" one that just came out. He opt'd for the mono version because he felt that stereo was just a fad.

"Completely" unnecessary seems a bit much. I would reserve that for something like a cheese grater attachment for my iPad

For the applications that support Retina, it truly looks wonderful. I wouldn't go away from the Retina display now that I have them. Maybe I'm an early adopter for the tech, but without early adopters there can be no mass consumption. Even though Apple only has 10% of the market, I feel that they push the rest of the industry into some "copy cat" technologies based on their forward thinking. We can already see laptop makers scrambling to shove more pixels into their displays (see here), so its coming to the masses this year...IMO, largely because of Apple, the early adopter

Edit: I am not an apple fanboi. I just recently moved to a Mac at work to learn the technology better, but work in Windows and Linux as well. I'm a "right tool for the job" kind of guy. Every platform has its common points and its strengths, just like people do.

drez wrote:

beats me wrote:I love Apple but I think a retina screen on a computer is a completely unnecessary and extravagant purchase. I’m sure at some point it will become the standard but until then it’s going to be nothing but growing pains for early adopters.

My Dad told me a story of when he was young and he was going to buy a reel to reel tape recorder/player. He had a choice to buy a mono or the new "stereo" one that just came out. He opt'd for the mono version because he felt that stereo was just a fad.

"Completely" unnecessary seems a bit much. I would reserve that for something like a cheese grater attachment for my iPad

For the applications that support Retina, it truly looks wonderful. I wouldn't go away from the Retina display now that I have them. Maybe I'm an early adopter for the tech, but without early adopters there can be no mass consumption. Even though Apple only has 10% of the market, I feel that they push the rest of the industry into some "copy cat" technologies based on their forward thinking. We can already see laptop makers scrambling to shove more pixels into their displays (see here), so its coming to the masses this year...IMO, largely because of Apple, the early adopter

Edit: I am not an apple fanboi. I just recently moved to a Mac at work to learn the technology better, but work in Windows and Linux as well. I'm a "right tool for the job" kind of guy. Every platform has its common points and its strengths, just like people do.

The problem with your analogy is that if your dad went with stereo it wouldn’t have fucked up listening to his mono recordings for who knows how long while waiting for each distributor to release stereo versions of everything in his catalog.

I don’t think retina quality graphics is a fad. I just think it’s probably at least another year or 2 before it becomes a standard embraced by a large number of developers. If you bought the very first retina MBP on release day it will probably be time for a new computer anyway when that standard becomes the norm. You could have saved yourself some grief and money if you just waited.


Add 64bit in with that sit and wait pile.

Just wanted to add I have an iPhone 5, iPad 2 and 3, iPad Mini, 11” MBA, 13” MBA, 27” iMac, Mac Mini, and an Apple TV and even I draw the line at retina computer displays as frivolous. But I don’t do anything that’s heavily graphics related.

beats me wrote: The problem with your analogy is that if your dad went with stereo it wouldn’t have fucked up listening to his mono recordings for who knows how long while waiting for each distributor to release stereo versions of everything in his catalog.

That's assuming he had any mono recording's in the first place. If he doesn't have any recordings, should he have purchased the mono or stereo device? Which would have been the more future proof to purchase?

beats me wrote: I don’t think retina quality graphics is a fad. I just think it’s probably at least another year or 2 before it becomes a standard embraced by a large number of developers. If you bought the very first retina MBP on release day it will probably be time for a new computer anyway when that standard becomes the norm. You could have saved yourself some grief and money if you just waited.

I see your point. But, personally, if I'm going to buy a new MBP and I'm already spending +$2K, I'm going to throw in the additional ~$300-$400 and get the Retina. People that have purchased a MacBook Pro in the last 9 months are trying to future proof their purchase and they want to get the best bang for their buck.

It would seem that a large portion of Live users (if not the majority) are using laptops for production and lots of those are Mac users (I would love to know the actual numbers, but these are my made up stats, so take with a grain of salt). It is, after all, marketed as a DAW for "live" use, therefore mobility is assumed. Doesn't it stand to reason that a decent sized demographic of people buying Live are candidates for using Macbook's and lots of those users are purchasing those in the last 9 months?

If any of the above makes sense, then why WOULDN'T they get Retina displays on a purchase in the last 9 months to future proof that expensive new Macbook? IMO, It would seem in Ableton's best interest to have their newest release supporting the current MacBook spec's, which includes Retina.

Just a theory

I know Retina support will eventually arrive. Ableton's going to do that, no doubt. I guess I'm just a tad shocked that it wasn't done in the Live 9 release with a "Retina Support" bullet item.

beats me wrote:Just wanted to add I have an iPhone 5, iPad 2 and 3, iPad Mini, 11” MBA, 13” MBA, 27” iMac, Mac Mini, and an Apple TV and even I draw the line at retina computer displays as frivolous. But I don’t do anything that’s heavily graphics related.

I have had a lot of eye problems since I was a little kid, and even after LASIK staring at computers all day normally just kills me with headaches. The retina MBP is the first I can work all day and not get that.

Tarekith wrote:

beats me wrote:Just wanted to add I have an iPhone 5, iPad 2 and 3, iPad Mini, 11” MBA, 13” MBA, 27” iMac, Mac Mini, and an Apple TV and even I draw the line at retina computer displays as frivolous. But I don’t do anything that’s heavily graphics related.

I have had a lot of eye problems since I was a little kid, and even after LASIK staring at computers all day normally just kills me with headaches. The retina MBP is the first I can work all day and not get that.

What a bullshit reason, you big puss!

I’ve made an iMac my main production machine and no 15” or smaller retina screen is going trump to that 27 inches of awesome. Ever.

drez wrote:If any of the above makes sense, then why WOULDN'T they get Retina displays on a purchase in the last 9 months to future proof that expensive new Macbook?

because, as you mentioned, it's an additional 300+ add-on and so many pieces of software still don't support it. people complained that a Live 9 upgrade was too expensive... but... it's cheaper than retina display... you can do a little more with Live 9 than you can with a retina display.

beats me wrote:I’ve made an iMac my main production machine and no 15” or smaller retina screen is going trump to that 27 inches of awesome. Ever.

this. sometimes, i just sit back and smile at it.

beats me wrote: I’ve made an iMac my main production machine and no 15” or smaller retina screen is going trump to that 27 inches of awesome. Ever.

I just got my 27" thunderbolt ordered for the office. My cohort has it and its fanTASTico! After staring at it all day, I'm sure I'll be forced to purchase one for the house for production

H20nly wrote:... you can do a little more with Live 9 than you can with a retina display.

...Not if you also edit video in Final Cut or edit photo's in Photoshop (which just got retina support in December). I think lots of "creative" folk aren't just musicians, they also do video and graphics. At least a lot of the ones I know.

Me, I use Omnigraffe for network/virtualization drawings and the Retina display really helps when I'm on my couch at night doing documentation. I can see lots more detail when I zoom out to get a macro view. I would like that same level of detail when I zoom out to get more channels when mixing in Live on my MacBook. Retina will allow that and allow me to still navigate the UI because its just so crisp.

I guess personally I wouldn't, if I was buying my +$2K Macbook, say to myself "Ableton doesn't support Retina today, so I'm not going to put it in my Macbook that I will have for a few years". That's making a short term decision on a long term buy.

Most people don't buy a computer to do one specific thing (there are definitely exceptions, like studio's on the working musician that earns a living making sure that machine runs and stays running) so you have to weigh all of those other software packages like you do Live and wether they also support Retina (indirectly to the point beats me made earlier). If 2 of the 3 packages you mostly use already have retina support, I think you'd be crazy to not get it. Mostly because you'd be pretty confident that the third one will most likely add support for it at some point considering Apple appears to be moving forward with it. I'm just surpised its taking Ableton this long to get onboard. I'm looking forward to when it does

well, i'm not disagreeing with your points, but Live was just one example of other stuff you can do with 300+ extra in cash. i tend to lean toward beats me's analysis of the Apple upgrade path... this time it's a skipper next time it will more than likely be a more balanced "no brainer"... not to mention cheaper.

having said that, i'm not knocking you and your decision. i'm glad you like your retina display... except when you use Live, of course.

Tarekith wrote:

beats me wrote:Just wanted to add I have an iPhone 5, iPad 2 and 3, iPad Mini, 11” MBA, 13” MBA, 27” iMac, Mac Mini, and an Apple TV and even I draw the line at retina computer displays as frivolous. But I don’t do anything that’s heavily graphics related.

I have had a lot of eye problems since I was a little kid, and even after LASIK staring at computers all day normally just kills me with headaches. The retina MBP is the first I can work all day and not get that.

Have Logic got support retina? Still blurry? Pracebo...

By the way, apple has lawsuit because of the retina.

Most other DAWs I use like Logic or Studio One implement text better or something, because they scale fine on the Retina. Things like icon graphics are still jagged, but that stuff doesn't bother me as much as blurry text does. I admit I have no idea of the specifics involved with other DAWs, they just at least look MOSTLY compatible, where as Live isn't optimized at all.

For instance, here are some random screen shots I just took of different projects in Live, Logic, and Studio One. Check them at full resolution, and you can see the difference quite easily:

Live:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5150/livefl.jpg

Logic:

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/5165/logic.jpg

Studio One:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4135/19033021.jpg

pencilrocket wrote:By the way, apple has lawsuit because of the retina.

what's the deal?