Live 5

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:44 pm

Comes up lacking.....

I can't see the ability to remove stop buttons so scene to scene things
from previous scenes keep playing without adding them to the next scene
as well.

Does it even support audio inputs?

Seems to be fully focused on MIDI/VSTi.....

-Ben

computo · Post by **computo** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:50 pm

At least this will light a fire under abletons ass, to not skimp on some of the suggestions made here...they could really stand to release a 4.5 solving many of the desired ideas that P5 seems to be hitting on.

and maybe that would take some of the wind out of cakewalks sails.

After all, cakewalk IMHO has always been steps down the chain for daw software, and I doubt that this release is going to dramatically change anything...other than setting some of these other companies off to release updates that bring them up to "snuff"

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:55 pm

More I look at this the more huge big holes I find....

Hi Guys...I just wanted to drop in to clarify something that comes off as
erroneous in the demo video. While it is possible to edit audio and drag
chunks over to the groove matrix while running, it is not possible to do
this after record without stopping as the chunks do not appear until then.
My apologies for getting everyone lathered up about this. At any rate, all
the rest of the stuff appears to be accurate as I've listened back through
it. Thanks for the kind words as well. It really is a LOT of fun to use.

You can't even record stuff and loop it in realtime.....

It might be good as a Rewire slave to Live..... but seems to be really
behind on the "Live performance" angle apart from as a VSTi host.

Also Live's focus on the scene/clip thing seems to be more solid. Cake so
far seems to think the "Groove Matrix" is a good way to trigger clips for
recording into an arrangement, but haven't figured out many use it as
their primary interface.

-Ben

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:09 pm

I was ready to write this off as I have enough software to make music with - but I notice that Project5 is $100 cheaper than Live!

that much cheaper and it comes with a whole lot more stuff in the package. Instruments, effects and all the stuff that was mentioned previously in this thread that we have been suffering without in Live for a good while.

I tried Project5 once before and didn't immediatly 'get it' so didn't bother buying. I might have another look at least.

anonymouse · Post by **anonymouse** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:24 pm

MrYellow (as you already have P5 v2.0) what's the latency like?

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:25 pm

If I can use it to host my VSTi's.... Load up effects and patches in multiple
synths with a few clicks, split keyboards and velocity layer.... Then I think
it'll be my VSTi host over Bidule.

Other than that...... from what I've read on the forums and seen....

Live kicks it's ass bigtime..... tho their marketing makes them sound
sexy, there are some massive holes in the workflow.

-Ben

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:29 pm

anonymouse wrote:MrYellow (as you already have P5 v2.0) what's the latency like?

nah.... I've just pulling down all the info I can find.

Lots they don't explain... leaving it up to our imaginations.... but from
what I have found, it's not all that we're thinking it is.....

We're used to Live... so when we see the interface we kinda think it works
the same, but it's a retrofit..... They've worked from a VSTi host to a Live
style sequencer.... Whereas Live worked the sequencer out first then
started added VSTs....

So far... from what I can figure.... Live's scene management stuff is way
ahead... Removing stop buttons, midi scene scrolling/selection and stuff
like that I haven't got answers back on yet (posted in their forum).... but
seems like it's not all the way there yet.

So really, Live with improved VSTi features will kick it's ass.

edit: from what I can gather... no legato mode, no clip quantise settings
per clip, no different warp modes/settings (guess it uses ACID), trigger
modes (not sure if it has Gate and Toggle), no follow actions..... etc

Seems like a very basic copy of the interface idea.....

-Ben

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:01 pm

I really don't want to buy this. On principle, I would rather spend the four hundred dollars on AUs that supplement the product that pioneered this field.

Unfortunately I want to be practical also. I have absolutely no idea what Ableton's plans are, and can only hope that such small (yet utterly brilliant) company can contend with Cakewalk's budget. The price of Operator is a very big red warning flash of danger to me, but I happily gave them my money for it, wanting them to have it for new advancements. I hope it wasn't just a few more bucks for their retirement before they cash their chips in.

Fortunatey there are some things that keep me satiated for now, since I have this (irrational?) emotional attachment (loyalty) to Ableton:

1) If I am not mistaken? Project 5's audio is very limited, and not practical for real time performance.

2) There seems to be some sort of general alliance or commodary between Ableton and the Digi/M-audio, two-headed beast.

Also, I am not sure how interested I would be in using Project 5 as a rewire, since I have been having been having such bad results with Logic.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:06 pm

There have been at least a couple of features that Ableton has not put in over the course of all 4 live versions that Project 5 looks like it has...

1. Plugin Delay Compensation
2. Groove templates
3. arpegiator
4. groups of instruments / effects saved together

If Project 5 performs on the Macintoshes, then Ableton has something to really worry about.

ABLETONS, GET OFF YOUR ASSES if you want stay competitive. Operator was a cool synth, but it shouldn't have been your focus - concentrate on what made you successful, not on sideshow distractions. Your competition is starting to catch on and complacency will kill your company.

That said, good work on Operator and Live 4 - both top notch programs!

tomperson · Post by **tomperson** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:26 pm

LOOKS COOL!!!

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:06 am

$400 ???

it's $199 at amazon

and they do a free upgrade to v2 on the cakewalk site

Purchase Project5 Version 1.5 through Cakewalk or any music retailer and get a free upgrade to new Project5 Version 2 (coming in April 2005). Just fill out the redemption form to receive your free copy. Offer ends April 30th, 2005.

I just spent that much money on a night out ..!

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:12 am

http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=436516

Looks like the "Groove Matrix" is nothing but a way to trigger midi files.

You can't record directly into the groove matrix, and you can't drag things
into it that have been recorded without stopping the audio..... For Live use
it's just a library, like a 3D file browser where you can load files
individually or in sets.

P5 v2...... is NOTHING like Live.

It's a VSTi host. A good companion for Live.... As it brigdes a gap I've
been finding in other programs, the ability to quickly load multi-layered
synths with all patches and effects settings. but comes nowhere near
being a Live sequencing instrument...... yet.

How P5 would help me.......

Currently if I want to recall a sound..... I go into Bidule, turn on the
synths I need (using footswitch) open the synths, hit the load buttons,
browse for a patch on each individual synth which has been saved with
matching names. Then I do the same for any effects. However I've hit a
problem. A bass sound I was making the other night sounds great with an
EQ4 setup, however no matter how hard I try I can't duplicate that sound
using EQ VSTs in bidule. So that leaves me with a part of the sound that
is in the Live track. Which needs a bounce to render..... Which means
more latency.... Which means it's totally impractical.

With P5.... I'd just load up the "device chain" and record the audio in Live.

-Ben

louZ · Post by **louZ** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:49 am

for live performance Project 5 might still be lacking some features, but for studio use it seems to have the edge over Live. i'm certainly going to check it out!

rand · Post by **rand** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:10 pm

Well, well well...
Though I only skimmed this stuff,
there's nothing in Project5 that a 'Live+Logic/SX/'Daw' ReWire combo couldn't do... and do a LOT more.
(Though ReWire is often flakey for me... this needs to be improved for sure.)

I just wish/hope Abletons Live would STAY FOCUSED on being the most solid realtime loop 'instrument' for playing... ummmm, LIVE!!!

Make the audio engine, 'sound quality' & ReWire TOP NOTCH!
i.e., better stretch algos (transient detection!), dual cpu aware, altiveced/SSE?, less cpu hogging, stability, etc...

Forget about trying to compete as a FULL featured DAW because it's a long ways from that and you're competing with some mighty big players. (And yes FanBoys, it's quite capable to compose quite a nice composition... but there's no pdc, tempo mapping, video sync, dual cpu support, surround, etc...) Also, don't even bother to try to compete on the high end elaborate softsynth stuff too (though Operator might be considered top quality)...

Just make it perform live or ReWired way better then the rest and drop the price to balance the lack of elaborate plugs & soft synths ...
THIS is just MY 'quick' humble opinion.
(please don't hit me

rRand

robbmasters · Post by **robbmasters** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:20 pm

Totally agree with rand. I wish Ableton would focus on live use.

Sure, if they ask us if we want features such as VSTi's like Operator and other DAW functionality, we'll say yes - but, please, not at the expense of essential live functionality. (I must get round to posting what I think this is in Feature Wishlist.)