Ableton Forum

delicioso wrote:I usually use 8 bars too but I make it longer if needed and I just re-record the automation if I need to..

See, this is where the issue lies - if I'm coming to the end of an 8(or 16), there will usually be changes in the patterns across many of the groups when moving to the next Scene.

So, to use your above technique to automate my reverb tail on my snare across the transition between what would normally be two 8 bar patterns, I then have to manually consolidate every other pair of 8 bar patterns in the other groups into new 16 bar patterns, each with the old first 8 bar pattern on the first half, and the second old 8 bar pattern in the second half.

Maybe I'm missing something very simple here, but that seems to be the only workaround for such a situation.

Also, if you have automatino running over quite different lengths and lntervals on different groups, it becomes quite complex, and lots of new patterns and scenes have to be created.

What happens if I decide that I want to do a slow, 16 bar filter sweep on one sound, and that 16 bar section currenlty consists of four x 4 bar Scenes across the other groups?

Maybe there is a magic pattern length that I should stick to, that covers most possibilities, to avoid such scenarios? But since I work quite spontaneously, I find myself running into similar predicaments when arranging in Maschine, since ill usually have different patterns at different lengths.

delicioso wrote: If I need to automate something where it needs to be precise, I just use step automation.

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Step automation? What is this? Areyoujust referring to the vertical automation bars/lines?

I haven't had any issues so far with transitions. Doesn't having reverb on the tail end of your snare give it the illusion of being played into the next scene?

Step automation on Maschine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdJh4FMNhNE&t=05m20s

For the most part I sequence Maschine in Live so its just like any other vst at that point. I just record it right into Live.

delicioso wrote:I haven't had any issues so far with transitions. Doesn't having reverb on the tail end of your snare give it the illusion of being played into the next scene?

That's the problem - the parameters of the reverb (or whatever automation) reset when the play head moves to the next Scene - because I can record an automation pass that transitions across two scenes.


If you can imagine ( for example ) the visual rise in the 'Wet/Dry' parameter for a reverb automation going up, Up, UP, UP as It gets closer to the last beat of the Scene...

....then, unless at the first beat of the next Scene the same parameter is sitting at EXACTLY the same level as it was at on the last beat of the previous Scene, then it will suddenly jump at that point - thus killing the smooth transition.

Clearly such a transition can't be recorded, and such an alignment of the parameters between Scenes must be drawn - which is fiddly and difficult ( more so if multiple automation parameters are crossing the transition between the Scenes)

Maybe there is another way of doing it - but does that illustrate the issue?

I see what you mean now. Have you tried step automation? It should be easier to get precise values than drawing with a mouse.

Yet to look at step automation - ill take a look when I get home.

Thanks for all of your help - I really appreciate it.

Out of interest, what styles of music are you making in Maschine? While I could feasibly make (and arrange) a hip hop track (ie. little to no automation, simpler arrangements) in Maschine, doing something more electronic (with lots of automation, as per my example) would prove difficult.

I'm all over the place really (I lean towards glitchy/ambient). I also play guitar in a metal band.

I use Maschine mostly on drums. Here's my current workflow:

- All individual drum hits on pads using only group A
- Each pad has its own output & midi channel in Live (using external midi device)
- I usually do 4-6 different 4 bar loop patterns
- After that I drag each pattern's midi data to the tracks in Live
- Then I use follow actions on all the clips so that they change every 4 bars to any of the 4-6 clips I did with Maschine

I found that this is quite an easy and fast way to do drum patterns that are interesting.

Hey Rationaliser - thats pretty much what I do! (except for using the external midi device)

Oh, and I route to audio channels in Live, which are triggered by the midi clips which I drag into Live.

I'm going to experiment with some of these other workflows, and see what works best. There are definitely pros and cons to each different method - its just a matter of finding which method has the least annoying trade-off, I guess.