To those it may concern. No more bitching for me.

[Forge.]

well, as I said I really haven't read all of it, all I saw was the "fanboy" thing which I wouldn't have thought was that upsetting really, but I think you probably both escalated something that really nobody should be getting that upset about.

It's just music software, it doesn't matter what he or anyone else thinks, and it's no reflection on you either. I mean, you've been around as long as any of us, you'd know your shit, why would it bother you either way what anyone else thinks?

In fact I still have that Pound puppy on my HD, I stumbled accross it the other day...

It's kind of funny though, I'd kind of forgotten the "live is not pro" thing, I haven't really seen that argument for a while... maybe I just haven't been paying attention

But I like having all you old timers back around again... It got pretty dull here for a while

Why don't you both kiss and make up, you're both pretty.

[knotkranky]

Cheers mate.

And of course i'm asking a lot and that i appear a decenter. There are numbers here that can change some things is all.
I'm a protester, i've been arrested for it. Funny thing is, "everybody" would enjoy the outcome if it were possible.

Sooo, the latest rantings are my last salvo at ableton. I regret using the term fanboy. It didn't serve the argument well.
I do know that lots of users get it, and that lots of users don't. If that distinction pisses off some users, there ya go

Assuming you meant "dissenter" and not just some slang to say you are a decent bloke.. can you sum up in one sentence what this outcome is? To be honest, even after skimming through that whole thread, it was mainly for fun just to see what the drama was all about, but it was mostly you and LM writing mountains of TL;DR bollox attacking each other, so I still have no idea what you were actually complaining about.

Am I picking at an open wound asking this? You did say you want "power users" to get behind it, so it might help id we knew what "it" was.

Oh no you didn't just bump this did you?

Ah yes, dissenter. I confess, I am poorly educated. Spell check said it was cool tho, lol. noted.

I was pretty worn out at this point hehe. My point was about:

Ableton Borg, trolling open discussion and creating a forum environment that's uninviting for power-users much needed suggestions and protests. A modicum of effort might lean things towards a sound browser and possibly other foundational improvements.

It speaks for it's self. It started me on the new browser and a little bit how abes releases versions. I feel lots of good deep users who might complain or riff dialogue on this forum about important issues get drowned out by whats popular or by dismissive trolls. He's tough, and runs right out of the gate at you if you have a critique that's not to his liking. I wanted to challenge him on that. He didn't like that I classified users either. But it's not a level field and good folks who know a whole helluva lot about how to help make live hum get passed on by the shear volume of more 'popular' feature noise. It almost appears Live is improved on a democratic platform. I'm speculating a lot of course to push the convo, but i wanted to protest and exercise my activist hippie too. I feel it's valid. Maybe not particularly powerful, but valid nonetheless. Gearslutz, though not a software company forum, has an atmosphere where great opinionated producers wonder in and lay down their wisdom. Maybe not a good comparison, but something to be gleaned. Good stuff. Ableton should takes it cues from deep users and not follow the most requested line imo.

Please though, no more. I'm so tired. I'll acquiesce right now

i'm so fucking tired of it. It's the reason I hardly ever come to this forum anymore. This used to be one of the absolute best places to exchange information about live and music (and especially electronic music) in general. Now it's a fucking pit of despair.

dude, you can't be serious! Holy fuck. You gonna be ok?

[leisuremuffin]

Of course it was escalated way beyond what it should be. It's just that reading the casual dismissal of users who disagree with certain points as amateurs makes the red mist descend on my field of vision. I'm a solutions oriented guy, not griping. I need to make music now, with the tools i have now, and i don't see the point of crying over how it *should* be.

Yes, it's just software, but what i do with that software is the only thing that truly ever makes me happy in life. It's important to me.



But not as important as my pound my puppy my pound my puppy my POUND puppy.

But yeah, its nice to write to you too.

[knotkranky]

well, as I said I really haven't read all of it, all I saw was the "fanboy" thing which I wouldn't have thought was that upsetting really, but I think you probably both escalated something that really nobody should be getting that upset about.

It's just music software, it doesn't matter what he or anyone else thinks, and it's no reflection on you either. I mean, you've been around as long as any of us, you'd know your shit, why would it bother you either way what anyone else thinks?

In fact I still have that Pound puppy on my HD, I stumbled accross it the other day...

It's kind of funny though, I'd kind of forgotten the "live is not pro" thing, I haven't really seen that argument for a while... maybe I just haven't been paying attention

But I like having all you old timers back around again... It got pretty dull here for a while

Why don't you both kiss and make up, you're both pretty.

Good god, thank you!

[leisuremuffin]

dude, did you miss the part where i agreed with you about not liking the new browser?
I think it fucking sucks right now. But my plan isn't to blame ableton or its users. My plan is to go ahead and use the thing. i felt there were enough benefits to 9 to make it worth the pain.


but i'm not saying that you have to feel the same way. I don't really care what you think about ableton. It's when you write stuff about the users that I get angry. Yes, it's an emotional response, but it is what it is and you have your part in it as much as i do.

[Forge.]

well, regarding the browser I'd say that they are well aware of it because the Push users are complaining just as much, and at the moment I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place really because they are trying to make it functional for both.

Personally I can't see many situations where I will use Push's browser because I will always have my laptop next to it and it's much easier on a 13" full colour screen

but still, their vision is that Push will let you make music without touching the computer, so they want it to fit in with Push.

Maybe if you could come up with something more specific though it might help.

i.e. - not having a home folder and having to add a folder everytime you plug in a USB drive or whatever is infuriating to me.. but that one's been made known loud and clear by others as well. I can only imagine it had to go because it caused some complications with Push.

Other than that I'm kind of okay with it really. Honestly I'm quite happy with Live 9.

I used to have things about Live that made my blood boil, but either L9 has sorted a lot of it out, or I'm just a lot calmer these days.

[knotkranky]

dude, did you miss the part where i agreed with you about not liking the new browser?
I think it fucking sucks right now. But my plan isn't to blame ableton or its users. My plan is to go ahead and use the thing. i felt there were enough benefits to 9 to make it worth the pain.


but i'm not saying that you have to feel the same way. I don't really care what you think about ableton. It's when you write stuff about the users that I get angry. Yes, it's an emotional response, but it is what it is and you have your part in it as much as i do.

Solid post brother. And the one cat I was a "little" rough on is cool. We worked it out early this morning. He didn't think anything of it. No worries too. I won't be protesting abes anytime soon. Nighty

@Forge. yes, time to chill and make tracks. I made a point and was challenged. I won't be doing that again anytime soon. Big music year for me.

[Machinesworking]

I have always hated most 'built in to the application' browsers.
I drag and drop from the OSX browser more than Ableton's in 9 and obviously that isn't changing much in 9.
I'm waiting on 9 until I get a new laptop. At $299 to upgrade from 8 Suite it's not an easy purchase.