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Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:01 am
by musick
Take over the keyboard, start iTunes, make it connect to your server and play something decent
Re: For those interested :sasha technical rider 2005
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:17 am
by FaX-01
galo wrote:For those interested
It seems that the MAVEN controller must include a build in sound card if it is connected to mixer directly.
What a wank love the diagram with speakers set up for stereo "sweet spot"
More like fucking phase cancellation the way they're positioned .
Or does the all knowing Sasha think the Pythagorean Triangle is a bit passe'
.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:45 am
by Angstrom
I really love the idea of taking a keyboard and a
bluetooth waveguide range enhancer.
Oh the hillarity of hitting those keyboard shortcuts.
I suppose a mouse would be a bit less conspicuous, but unless he projects up the screen of Live - not as much use.
BTW - I thought 'side-fill' was a historical name from the 70's rather than technically describing the positioning. It is more acurately 'X-stage' I think.
Anyway - I have never been in the position where I have thought 'hmm these monitors are out of phase' . It certainly should produce phase cancellation when you point 2 drivers at each other diametrically oposed .. but at that volume I can never tell!
I reckon he just means .. 'both speakers the same distance from me'.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 3:11 pm
by tomperson
Emissary wrote:, i had no idea that sasha was an extra from southpark, shows how much i know, where did he get those carboard looking headphones aswell???, I want some, even if they cost a thousand million pounds , and how did he get everything to look like its at weird 4th dimensional angles, why cant my equipment look like that....the guy truly is a genius. ......................hang on a second!!!
Crazy MF, I'm crying of laughing soooo much!!! The guys here at the office will think I'm gone mad!
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:11 pm
by kabuki
POOP. I have another Sasha ridder, but can't post it (My Temp Directory is too overloaded right now...
(here's the link if anyone wantsd to try)
http://sr1.mytempdir.com/24403
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:24 pm
by galo
you have way to much time on your hands
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:36 pm
by kabuki
Yeah. I know.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:42 pm
by kennerb
Angstrom wrote:Sorry to be picky but Shulgin is the man for MDMA rather than LSD
Heh. I like Shulgin's set up way better than Sasha's
Though MDMA was just a very small part of what he is about. He's a fascinating man.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:56 pm
by Harris.Andrew
There's a reason Sasha's using 180 degree seperation on his speakers. The phase cancellation will occur, not at his left and right ears, but perfectly in the middle of his body. And there's a very good reason for this.
His balls will not jiggle violently from low bass during the set when this cancellation occurs. If things are not perfectly set up though, they might implode.
OK Just kidding. My understainding of phase cancelling was:
Phase cancellation occurs when two waveforms have exactly opposite polarity, and exactly identical (in absolute value) amplitude at the same time . . . in the case of sine waves, when you get two at the same freq and one is 180 deg out of phase (down-up instead of up-down), then their amplitudes cancel.
This does not relate at all to speakers being 180 degrees apart from each other. 180 degrees phase and 180 degrees geometrically are totally different concepts at work here.
When people talk about using phase cancelling L/R channels, they're talking about not _phase_ cancelling (that'd only really work on sine, or other pretty symetric waves . . .) but polarity cancelling - Furthermore, you can only do this on a mono track (as you're generating 2 audio streams from 1; 1 straight, 1 opposite polarity).
And that's my understanding - feel free to edu-ma-cate me otherwise.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:14 pm
by kabuki
I made a chart explaining this...
http://sr1.mytempdir.com/24403
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:47 pm
by Livewire
hey man use
www.xthost.info instead. the tempdir server sucks.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 11:58 pm
by D K
Harris.Andrew wrote:
Phase cancellation occurs when two waveforms have exactly opposite polarity, and exactly identical (in absolute value) amplitude at the same time . . . in the case of sine waves, when you get two at the same freq and one is 180 deg out of phase (down-up instead of up-down), then their amplitudes cancel.
This does not relate at all to speakers being 180 degrees apart from each other. 180 degrees phase and 180 degrees geometrically are totally different concepts at work here.
A:actually, they are quite similar, if not the same. when two speakers point diretly at eachother, the speakers are both firing in opposite directions. they both push inward at the same time.
180 degrees out of phase.
to defeat this, you reverse the phase on one speaker,
and then both speakers fire in the same direction...one out, one in...
because they are facing eachother, they then move in the same direction.
now in phase. no more cancellation. simple.
When people talk about using phase cancelling L/R channels, they're talking about not _phase_ cancelling (that'd only really work on sine, or other pretty symetric waves . . .) but polarity cancelling - Furthermore, you can only do this on a mono track (as you're generating 2 audio streams from 1; 1 straight, 1 opposite polarity).
A:terminlology confusion. that's why the little buttons with the circle with a slash are called phase reverse on every console made, it achieves the same degree result.
And that's my understanding - feel free to edu-ma-cate me otherwise.
A:these answers are ime (as a pro sound engineer for the last 15+ years.)
cheers
d
p.s. oops, my answers are in the quote.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:29 am
by Angstrom
Nah, sorry guys. If the speakers / drivers / cabs are physically facing each other you can flip the phase all you like .. but you will just offset the phase effect to the next half wavelength.
You are imagining that the driver is producing a push pull effect and by syncing these you will not get cancellation ... well if you think about it it is effectively only a push effect as the waves propagate. The driver doesnt pull the air back and forth.
Imagine a swimming pool with a wave pulse at each end - syncronous.
As the waves meet there will be enforcing - dead center.
Now delay one wavepulse by a beat, there are still 2 waves meeting right .. but where ?
one half wavelength away.
Thats where they cancel out with phase reversed in a diametrically oposed wave system.
to illustrate .. 2 waves in phase with enforcement and cancellation
notice that these waves are the same, in sync.
Now one of the waves has been phase reversed, notice that the dark band on the outside is now light . It is reversed.
You can see that there are still teh same phase effects but they are spatially displaced to one half wavelength away.
But anyway .. unless you have your head in a vice you are always going to get phase effects of some sort .. it just so happens that these are the worst kind.
Unless you go for one of those new Bose audio pervert black stick on stage systems, they dont have any phase issues .. supposedly.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:49 am
by D K
like i stated earlier, the only way to defeat phase is to use cans...
but by flipping the polarity of one speaker facing the other, the sound waves
pulse in the same direction, as opposed to against eachother, essentially,
the speakers are then in phase with eachother, and produce the expected results.
i'm not getting deep into the physics,
i'm just letting folks who might use live on a stage know
why people use sidefills, and typical ways to deal with them to make sure
they function to the performers benefit.
like your diagrams, tho! pretty!
cheers
d
Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 12:57 am
by galo
sorry i fell asleep
what where you saying