The Great BMW Debate

[beats me]

Goddamnit. I'm adding value in this thread. Fuck you guys!

[stringtapper]

The argument that quality is not a determinant of price seems illogical. (<- Funken take notice how i didn't say it was "fucking stupid" or some other insult.)

How do you explain the rampant importing of cheap goods from China into the U.S.?

An MIA Fender Jazz is simply a better quality instrument than MIM or MIJ basses (although the Mexican Fender factories have upped quality significantly in recent years) and that difference is reflected in the price.

On the other hand I have no idea what the fuck this means:

more socially necessary labour

(See again, no insult, it's easy!)

[Galt]

SOCIALLY NECESSARY

Explain to me why Star Wars Episode III is more socially necessary than my burnt omelette.

[Galt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-of-pr ... y_of_value

Cost-of-production theory of value

"In economics, the cost-of-production theory of value is the theory that the price of an object or condition is determined by the sum of the cost of the resources that went into making it. The cost can comprise any of the factors of production (including labor, capital, or land) and taxation."

Yesterday, I spent $10'000 on 4K TVs, which I then welded together and shat on. For some reason, I couldn't find anyone to buy my master piece which, after 4 hours of work at $500 an hour, I was trying to sell at $12'000, although I could have charged more, were I to factor in the cost of the six burgers which went into producing my epic arsepat.

Your theory sucks.

[Galt]

Back to the spamming are we?

[stringtapper]

Both of you suck at actually debating points. (<- that's an insult… and an observation )

You're ideologues hopelessly entrenched in your extreme views.

I'm pouring gasoline on this thread, locking both of you in it, and lighting a motherfucking match.

[Galt]

But how much will all that hard work be worth?

[stringtapper]

A lot.

[stringtapper]

Well then I'm buying one of these:



Watch your ectoplasmic ass.

[TomViolenz]

SOCIALLY NECESSARY

Explain to me why Star Wars Episode III is more socially necessary than my burnt omelette.

It isn't! But then I never was much into Star Wars. (No, I'm not a Trekie either )

[TomViolenz]

Some people might think that if the value of a commodity is determined by the quantity of labour spent on it, the more idle and unskilful the labourer, the more valuable would his commodity be, because more time would be required in its production. The labour, however, that forms the substance of value, is homogeneous human labour, expenditure of one uniform labour power. The total labour power of society, which is embodied in the sum total of the values of all commodities produced by that society, counts here as one homogeneous mass of human labour power, composed though it be of innumerable individual units. Each of these units is the same as any other, so far as it has the character of the average labour power of society, and takes effect as such; that is, so far as it requires for producing a commodity, no more time than is needed on an average, no more than is socially necessary. The labour time socially necessary is that required to produce an article under the normal conditions of production, and with the average degree of skill and intensity prevalent at the time. The introduction of power-looms into England probably reduced by one-half the labour required to weave a given quantity of yarn into cloth. The hand-loom weavers, as a matter of fact, continued to require the same time as before; but for all that, the product of one hour of their labour represented after the change only half an hour’s social labour, and consequently fell to one-half its former value.

We see then that that which determines the magnitude of the value of any article is the amount of labour socially necessary, or the labour time socially necessary for its production.[9] Each individual commodity, in this connexion, is to be considered as an average sample of its class.[10] Commodities, therefore, in which equal quantities of labour are embodied, or which can be produced in the same time, have the same value. The value of one commodity is to the value of any other, as the labour time necessary for the production of the one is to that necessary for the production of the other. “As values, all commodities are only definite masses of congealed labour time.”[11]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... 01.htm#037
Capital, Chapter 1
SECTION 1
THE TWO FACTORS OF A COMMODITY:
USE-VALUE AND VALUE
(THE SUBSTANCE OF VALUE AND THE MAGNITUDE OF VALUE)

Did I get that right? An hour of labour of the head engineer is as valuable as that of the cleaning lady? Surely not!?

[regretfullySaid]

CROSS THE GOD DAMN STREAMS

These marshmallows and hot dogs ain't gonna roast themselves.

[TomViolenz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-of-pr ... y_of_value

Cost-of-production theory of value

"In economics, the cost-of-production theory of value is the theory that the price of an object or condition is determined by the sum of the cost of the resources that went into making it. The cost can comprise any of the factors of production (including labor, capital, or land) and taxation."

I guess in a Socialist society everything will be sold at cost, but in the world we live in today, that doesn't happen. That's were Galts price comes in.
In a functioning company this will be anything between the cost you mentioned and the price the market will bear.
In a non-functioning company this will be just what the market bears, no matter how much it costs to produce, so long until the company goes bankrupt.
How can we even attempt to discuss economics if not even this much is clear?

[TomViolenz]

Both of you suck at actually debating points. (<- that's an insult… and an observation )

You're ideologues hopelessly entrenched in your extreme views.

I'm pouring gasoline on this thread, locking both of you in it, and lighting a motherfucking match.

Would you please let me out first?! I'm just an innocent by-stander!

[stringtapper]

This forum needs an enema!