Ableton Forum

I'll play around with it.. see where it takes me

If they have a perfect copy of Operator and a system to migrate all the sounds i've made, including drum racks and simpler, and a live set migrating system, i might give it a try.
But seriously, i've made so much in live these 8 last years that migrating capabilities would be the top argument.

hec wrote:These are just a few of the ways in which BitWig is OBJECTIVELY better than Live. I put that in all caps because that's not an opinion.

Except it actually IS an opinion. This whole post is incredibly biased.

Every DAW is different. Every DAW has strengths and weaknesses and while Bitwig certainly *seems* to have some cool LITTLE features (according to Bitwig marketing, it hasn't been released yet) this doesn't make it objectively better.

In fact, I'd take M4L, Push (and a shit ton of other dedicated controllers), a first party library of instruments and sounds that perfectly integrates with Live and said controllers, a huge M4L and Live community, you know, stuff that actually matters when making music, over editing with sample precision (I'll leave that to sound engineers with some serious OCDs).

Do you happen to work for Bitwig? New account, incredibly biased post. Genuinely curious.

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No, not really. Well, I like the convolution reverbs in M4L, and I'm toying with Zebra's ZebRev - its reverb as a stand-alone plugin.

Lil Linux wrote:Hoping the Bitwig Linux version goes well.

This.

I will set up a demo system to follow how it will progress. Linux can dual boot with windows or osx. It can even boot from an external drive. Something to entertain myself with on airports etc. This is more exciting then playing games etc to me, so I will use my chill time to do it. If it proves to be stable over time, and vst developers start to release on this platform.. well its going to be interesting to follow the evolution. With Valve/Steam aka iTunes for games onboard the Linux user group might grow substantially over the next few years. Maybe BitWig will do the same for the music production industry.

I'm with the Linux guys. IMHO the REAL thing going for Bitwig is it's compatibility with Linux. If it's half as good as it looks it will pretty much have a monopoly on that market (I'm not even counting Audacity and other other Linux "DAWs").

On Mac PC the cold hard truth is that the people who want a "DAW like Live" already own and use Live and have done so for years, investing in compatible hardware and Live Packs. The features Bitwig brings to the table are gimmicky at best and would never make a significant part of Live users jump ship and learn a new DAW/change their whole setup.

It might have worked last year with Live 8 not receiving any updates for 4 years and generally being an unstable and shitty fiasco but the work on Live 9 and Push pretty much restored confidence in Ableton.

I'll test Bitwig, and if it doesn't click and pop under minimal loads, that's a major plus. If the notes stay on the grid, that's another big plus. If you can route one parameter to another without going on an intensive 3 year university course, that's another plus. If it seems to be heading in the direction I want to travel, then that's a big plus.

Angstrom wrote:I'll test Bitwig, and if it doesn't click and pop under minimal loads, that's a major plus. If the notes stay on the grid, that's another big plus. If you can route one parameter to another without going on an intensive 3 year university course, that's another plus. If it seems to be heading in the direction I want to travel, then that's a big plus.

Haha. Agree very much. Also the sends and automation latency issue bugs the hell out of me on a daily basis. Its such a workflow hog on big projects. I hope BitWig solves this. The speed of the browser indexing in 9 is also very counter productive. If BitWig solves this and other workflow issues it might push Ableton to step up and find better solutions for these things. It might turn into good news for us all..

Competition is good.

We have already seen a new feature in L9 that was surely prompted by Bitwig (dual screens). That feature had been on the backburner for years (IE: "Yes, we have considered it, but don't see a great way of implementing it" ) Coincidentally when a competitive product touted it - it was provided in point version addition.

A win for Ableton users.

I hope similar things for stuff like modularity. Ever since M4L debuted we have been told
"you want to route something to somewhere else? Learn our IDE and forget why you even began. Want a funky bass? Then learn all about variable scope and class inheritances. If you don't want to be diverted into our obtuse code implementation then you should just just load a beatshuffler preset and shut up, Lamer. There is no middle ground! Now stop talking. Stop talking! Weird Coding is the solution to music! There will be no dissent!".

If a competitor can demonstrate that some musical modular tasks are better delivered via ease and simplicity (drag X onto Y), perhaps that might deliver us some actual fun features from Frankenstein's monster.

I live in hope

If the "patch anything to anything with one click" works as announced this feature alone will sky rocket my workflow. I've been asking for this all the way back since Live first got midi back in 4. After M4L it seemed like a lost case.

I hope Ableton are working on rewriting the whole code for 10, and make it fully modular. Imagine flipping Session view around and patch devices like Reason. Maybe not optimal, but just an example. Usually DAW companies rewrite the code on the 10th version, so it might happen that Ableton rebuild the whole thing. It feels to me now like some "new" futures are slowing down the system and the workflow. Like its not "in" the code but rather glued on with gaffer tape.

If Live10 was rewritten from scratch when do you think it would be released? AFAIK BWS development took about 5 years.

I'm comfortable with Live, nothing Bitwig offers is a deal breaker for me, and Bitwig doesn't offer the same live performance functionality as far as I can tell.

I'll just continue as is and hope Ableton implements some of Bitwigs improvements into Live eventually. Switching DAWs is just a distraction for me at this point.

ze2be wrote:I hope Ableton are working on rewriting the whole code for 10, and make it fully modular. Imagine flipping Session view around and patch devices like Reason. Maybe not optimal, but just an example. Usually DAW companies rewrite the code on the 10th version, so it might happen that Ableton rebuild the whole thing. It feels to me now like some "new" futures are slowing down the system and the workflow. Like its not "in" the code but rather glued on with gaffer tape.

This is also going to be very healthy for the future development as well. I really wish that they could start fresh with Live 10, since I planned to stick with Ableton for a good long time. L9, M4L and Push are irreplaceable for me.

Donnie wrote:I'll just continue as is and hope Ableton implements some of Bitwigs improvements into Live eventually.

exactly, I have a good feeling about 9.2.

I'm glad that there is some type of competition for Ableton. Competition seems to keep a company honest. Bitwig has one simple omission that makes it a deal breaker for me personally, and that is a "crossfader"!!!!